Redskins Insider: Draft Review

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by sjp21

I know how we all love to speculate about the upcoming season and wait in earnest for September to roll around so we can see a glimpse of greatness from recent draft picks and free agent pickups. All I want to say is it is impossible to accurately assess how the Skins will fair each season because we have two morons at the head of our organization. Snyder and Cerratto have been a plague to this team for as long as I can remember. Blown draft picks and absurb free agent signings are a common phenomenon in this town. Just rattling off a few names: Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, Bruce Smith, and Ade Jimoh. All these players with the exception of Jimoh were given enormous salaries and bonuses and yielded little or no production. They actually in reality hurt us. Duckett was famous for losing yards, any deep ball would fly over Jimoh's head, Archuleta couldnt cover a cripple, and Lloyd has about 20 catches in 3 years...

I have been a fan of this team for 20 years and I love them to death. I just want people to understand that in D.C. no one can know how each season will pan out...

On a good note, our draft was relatively successful. We could have used an aggressive, quick, strong DE but you can never get what you want with the team all the time.

.....and the Skins have two morons at the head of the organization? Not a great first post. Have you heard of ExtremeSkins?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sjp21

I know how we all love to speculate about the upcoming season and wait in earnest for September to roll around so we can see a glimpse of greatness from recent draft picks and free agent pickups. All I want to say is it is impossible to accurately assess how the Skins will fair each season because we have two morons at the head of our organization. Snyder and Cerratto have been a plague to this team for as long as I can remember. Blown draft picks and absurb free agent signings are a common phenomenon in this town. Just rattling off a few names: Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, Bruce Smith, and Ade Jimoh. All these players with the exception of Jimoh were given enormous salaries and bonuses and yielded little or no production. They actually in reality hurt us. Duckett was famous for losing yards, any deep ball would fly over Jimoh's head, Archuleta couldnt cover a cripple, and Lloyd has about 20 catches in 3 years...

I have been a fan of this team for 20 years and I love them to death. I just want people to understand that in D.C. no one can know how each season will pan out...

On a good note, our draft was relatively successful. We could have used an aggressive, quick, strong DE but you can never get what you want with the team all the time.

Never mind Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Casay Rabach, Randy Thomas, Mike Sellers, Rock Cartwright, Marcus Washington, London Fletcher, Sean Taylor, Shawn Springs, Laron Landry, Corneluis Griffin, Anthony Montgomery...

[JWsleep]

For what it's worth, Boswell also had his doubts about our day 1 choices, and for the same reasons, pretty much:

washingtonpost.com

I don't think Boswell is an off-the-wall nay-sayer. He's pretty straight up about these things. And while it may well turn out just fine, it's not off-the-wall for JLac to point out that this is not how other teams are doing things, from the coaching selection process to the draft. And it's not like this is the first time Danny and Vinny ahve done things their own way--it's what they do. Maybe it'll work out. But it's not the conventional wisdom. Sure, Kiper and other network and internent pundits liked it. But that's not the only legit opinion on drafting.

Think back to when we made the TE and 2nd WR pick. How did you react then? We can go look at the draft thread. I was unsure, as were many of you. So we've now come round and convinced ourselves that it's ok. Fine. Maybe that's right. But JLac isn't being overly negative to bring up the contrary view. His coverage has been excellent, in the following sense: he's ALWAYS working that beat. He puts in tons of time on the paper and the blog, AND he answers emails. So you don't agree with his opinion; that's part of the process. But to say he's off his rocker and just being negative is too harsh in this case, IMHO.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

For what it's worth, Boswell also had his doubts about our day 1 choices, and for the same reasons, pretty much:

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

I don't think Boswell is an off-the-wall nay-sayer. He's pretty straight up about these things. And while it may well turn out just fine, it's not off-the-wall for JLac to point out that this is not how other teams are doing things, from the coaching selection process to the draft. And it's not like this is the first time Danny and Vinny ahve done things their own way--it's what they do. Maybe it'll work out. But it's not the conventional wisdom. Sure, Kiper and other network and internent pundits liked it. But that's not the only legit opinion on drafting.

Think back to when we made the TE and 2nd WR pick. How did you react then? We can go look at the draft thread. I was unsure, as were many of you. So we've now come round and convinced ourselves that it's ok. Fine. Maybe that's right. But JLac isn't being overly negative to bring up the contrary view. His coverage has been excellent, in the following sense: he's ALWAYS working that beat. He puts in tons of time on the paper and the blog, AND he answers emails. So you don't agree with his opinion; that's part of the process. But to say he's off his rocker and just being negative is too harsh in this case, IMHO.

Great post.

[SmootSmack]

One of my biggest issues with JLC is how his Insider info tends to come after the fact, if at all. Case in point

"Inside the building, coaches were fretting that upper management was pushing grades higher on players like Malcolm Kelly, inflating their worth as the draft approaches, while Kelly was dropping down other boards. Teams I spoke to before the draft had him rated in the lower half of the second round, and no one seems shocked he was still on the board at 51. The Redskins kept coming up with high grades on this slumping receiver class, thus ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you simply follow the board, and the draft plays out as expected, and you sit there with a bunch of second round picks, of course you're going to have wide receivers "sticking out like a sore thumb."

Maybe I missed this, but did he talk about this stuff before the draft? Or did he just wait until afterward? If he waited, then why?

[jrtmolar]

and if all these teams had Kelly in the "lower half of the second round" didnt the skins pick him where they should have? Last I checked thats where pick #51 is

[SkinsFanSince91]

Here is a really cool video with film highlights of all draft picks with the exception of some film on Rhinehart. Check it out, and make sure to give the creator of that video some props.

YouTube - Washington Redskins 2008 Draft Picks

[Stuck in TX]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

Here is a really cool video with film highlights of all draft picks with the exception of some film on Rhinehart. Check it out, and make sure to give the creator of that video some props.

YouTube - Washington Redskins 2008 Draft Picks

good video!!

[GMScud]

Well, I take a few things from JLa's blog.

He certainly is playing devil's advocate as far as "building in the trenches" is concerned. And he may not be far off. But in response, a few things to consider:

We do need some depth on the OL and DL, and maybe we do need another pass rusher to bookend Andre Carter. But maybe Phillip Daniels has another year left in him. Maybe Greg Blache sees a bright future in Chris Wilson who came on strong down the stretch last year.

Now that the O-line is 100% healthy, what are the chances we again lose Thomas AND Jansen to season ending injuries in the first two weeks? I'd say remote considering how durable both players had been prior to '07. With Samuels, Thomas, Kendall, Rabach, and Jansen all full go come training camp, and Heyer, Wade, Fabini, and Reinhart behind them, I think we'll be okay for another year.

As far as the Redskins "inflating" their draft board rankings on Kelly and their past obsession with WRs: Devin Thomas was rated the #1 receiver in the draft. Sure it wasn't an awesome class, but most experts agree he was a steal at #34 considering many mocks had him going to Buffalo at #11. Kelly was rated the #1 receiver until the past few weeks when some "character" flags popped up. McShay loves him, and apparently so did Jason Campbell when he flew down to Oklahoma with Vinny and Co. to work him out. For anyone who doesn't think we need a plethora of pass catchers in the WCO, look at Seattle's passing stats last year:

Their top 7 receivers in '07 totaled 315 catches for 3685 yards and 25 TDs.

Our top 7 receivers in '07 totaled 285 catches for 3141 yards and 15 TDs.

That's 30 less receptions for 544 less yards and 10 less TDs. Pretty significant, especially the TDs. I understand we ran more and they threw more, but this is our new offense now. And frankly we didn't have the personnel to make it work.

Our defense was pretty damn good last year despite a wide variety of injuries. All the staff (Gregg aside) and personnel are returning. It's fine with me that offense was the focus, particularly the passing game. Sure he mentions the Coles, Lloyd, Moss, Randle El dealings, but we haven't drafted a significant WR since Taylor Jacobs, and that pick was primarily b/c of the Ole Ball Coach. Prior to that, Michael Westbrook? We needed at least 2 of these 3 pass catchers we drafted. Funny how a position that Danny is so enamored with hasn't been a position he's cared to draft until now.

I bothers me a bit that JLa has been so negative, but I understand. He covers the Skins for a living, and the team's overall performance, both on the field and in the front office, hasn't exactly been glowing. I definitely hope Danny and Vinny can prove him wrong.

On a side note, where are the Anthony Mix sycophants now?

[djnemo65]

Well JLC's promise to the fans was that if the team started winning his tone would change. He said something like this in 2006. Then we made the playoffs last year and he got crankier than ever. The key moment that proved to me that he had lost it was when he slammed the skins for trading Archuleta, the snitch with the massive salary who they were going to cut anyway and yet somehow got a pick for. You don't have to know much about football to recognize that that was a coup for us, but JLC somehow found fault with it.

Him and Boswell seem to echo the same argument, could the Skins really be right about players that the rest of the league (or at least the few teams that JLC talks to) evaluated differently. While only time will tell, by JLC's logic a team should never draft a sliding player because the league must know something. Miami shouldn't have drafted Marino and the Bucs shouldn't have drafted Sapp because, really, could the rest of the league be wrong?

While you can debate the strategy of drafting quality over need, you can't argue that our second round players were steals based on their consensus projections (in spite of what JLC's snippety secret sources charge). Kudos to the FO for sticking by their board.

Does anyone else get the feeling that if we had drafted Mike Jenkins at 21 JLC would be complaining about how we should have traded down, and that his sources thought Jenkins was a second round talent?

[rypper11]

For the record, I am not a fan of this draft despite the positive feedback from most draft experts.
As I've posted in other threads, it takes a wr three years to become a full time starter (on avg, I know there are exceptions like Randy Moss). At that time, Moss and ARE will both be 31. If Thomas and Kelly become the great wr's that the FO believes, then we are in the great position of trying to keep everyone happy with only one football.
I don't think it's possible to please everyone with this draft with the amount of holes we have. Personally, I wanted DL and CB early and OL and LB for depth. With a top 10 defense I see why we went offense but I disagree.
I hate using early picks on WR. Outside of QB, I think it is the hardest position to project from college to pro.
That being said, JLC (and Boswell) will find any reason to rip Danny and Cerrato. It was weird hearing so many NFL insiders and experts praise Cerrato as great talent evaluator when JLC and his minions paint him as the dumbest SOB to ever work in an NFL FO.

[#56fanatic]

I think the picks are WR were good picks - however I thought they would have gone after the DE from Miami with the second pick since he was still there. the questionable pick was the TE from USC, given we have a probowler there all ready. I think the biggest beef is they have players rated high that generally not a lot of the teams/gm's have rated that high. Kelly's stock steadily declined from the combine as a lot of experts stated, but the Skins still had him as a 1st round talent. I can see where some of the critism may come from. We didn't really address the DE spot that is a glaring need, and since there was a potential started there when we picked Davis it could raise some questions. But overall, I guess we did ok. I personally thought the B may have been a little high, but when you look at value of the picks it falls in line.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I think the picks are WR were good picks - however I thought they would have gone after the DE from Miami with the second pick since he was still there. the questionable pick was the TE from USC, given we have a probowler there all ready. I think the biggest beef is they have players rated high that generally not a lot of the teams/gm's have rated that high. Kelly's stock steadily declined from the combine as a lot of experts stated, but the Skins still had him as a 1st round talent. I can see where some of the critism may come from. We didn't really address the DE spot that is a glaring need, and since there was a potential started there when we picked Davis it could raise some questions. But overall, I guess we did ok. I personally thought the B may have been a little high, but when you look at value of the picks it falls in line.

Kelly was maybe going to go 9. He was there at 51. It doesn't seem like anyone except for two Washington journalists feel we were pumping up players on our board or misevaluating prospects relative to the rest of the league. The national media universally loves what we did.

[freddyg12]

Fiend makes a good point; they may have picked the 2 wideouts to play the averages, realizing that it's likely one of them either doesn't pan out at all or just becomes a career backup. Add to that, since they moved back w/the trade, the expense won't be much to take the chance that one or all of these guys will be great.

As Matty said, they followed the board & the DEs they liked were gone when thier picks came up. I think this is really the core of this debate between us & JLC/boswell. Should you follow the "board" & draft the best available or draft based on need. It may be that you can do both to some degree, and I think that's what Boswell criticized them for as if they were following the board w/no regard to need.

I think he makes a good point & I think JLC overall has a strong argument, it may just be the way he phrases it w/references to "league sources" & such. I was really surprised by the Davis selection, but the guy is a beast. Also, people so often are referring to TEs as recievers, well they do block on the line as well & Joe Gibbs can tell you how important a good blocking TE is to a running game.

Overall, I look at this relatively. While I would've liked to have gotten a couple more o or d llinemen, instead of trading away picks we actually ended up w/ an additional pick & raised the chances that this draft will produce some players that are in b&g for years to come.

[Stuck in TX]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Fiend makes a good point; they may have picked the 2 wideouts to play the averages, realizing that it's likely one of them either doesn't pan out at all or just becomes a career backup. Add to that, since they moved back w/the trade, the expense won't be much to take the chance that one or all of these guys will be great.

As Matty said, they followed the board & the DEs they liked were gone when thier picks came up. I think this is really the core of this debate between us & JLC/boswell. Should you follow the "board" & draft the best available or draft based on need. It may be that you can do both to some degree, and I think that's what Boswell criticized them for as if they were following the board w/no regard to need.

I think he makes a good point & I think JLC overall has a strong argument, it may just be the way he phrases it w/references to "league sources" & such. I was really surprised by the Davis selection, but the guy is a beast. Also, people so often are referring to TEs as recievers, well they do block on the line as well & Joe Gibbs can tell you how important a good blocking TE is to a running game.

Overall, I look at this relatively. While I would've liked to have gotten a couple more o or d llinemen, instead of trading away picks we actually ended up w/ an additional pick & raised the chances that this draft will produce some players that are in b&g for years to come.

this brings tears to my eyes... How long have we waited for this? I agree with this and even though the draft is over, there is still FA and UDFA that we have to deal with. With the way the front office handled the draft, I have no doubts at whether or not they will pick up depth at OL or DL.