Redskins Insider: Draft Review

[HOGTIMUS PRIME]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

JLC did that to himself. If he's going to make a point in a major media outlet, get your facts straight. Don't blow this off, how can you write opinions about the Redskins, say the Front Office screwed up, and not understand something so basic as this? You wouldn't use any of those players in his scenario because it would be going back 5 yds every time you line up.

To your point, Kelly and Thomas will probably not both be ready as a # 1 & #2 WR on day one, they will need to develop and learn the NFL and WCO. Here's what I envision this year as a few personnel packages:

I-Form: Moss - Z, Thomas - X, Cooley TE, Sellars FB, Portis will be RB is all formations.

I-Form or Split-Back (hands): same as above with Davis / Cooley at FB & TE, not sure who is where depends on what Zorn wants to do.

3WR: Moss - Z, Thomas - X, ARE - Slot, Sellars or Cooley FB
3WR (Singleback): same as above Cooley at TE

Singleback, 2TE - Moss - Z, Thomas - X, Davis & Cooley TEs
Singleback, 2TE wide - same as above with Davis & Cooley either wide or in the slots

4WR - Moss, ARE, Kelly, Thomas.

4WR, TE - add Cooley to above

Moss will probably not get through the year healthy.
ARE is a good slot WR, not much more.
Cooley & Davis can create a lot of mismatches unless a team has very good coverage LBs. If a D brings in a nickle package against a 2TE formation for coverage they will get smashed on a run. If a D stays with LB coverage they better have some good cover LBs to account for Cooley & Davis.
Sellars will be a traditional blocking FB.

The 2nd round picks are going to be very "cap friendly" for at least three years. By 2010 Moss & ARE will be able to be released and will probably not be effective at that point anyway. From a skill player perspective we are set at WR, TE, RB for at least 3 years. These guys give Zorn many formations to go to and many potential mismatches against the D to exploit. Kelly and Thomas are also bigger WRs, gives Campbell bigger targets as he develops his accuracy.

Now how about you come up with a point better than: They should've gotten OL / DL or Campbell won't be able to throw if he doesn't have time.

WOW, finally someone who can stuff 10lbs of bologna in a 5lbs bag.

4 WR sets? And wheres the nearest hospital? Because Campbell is on his way he just don't know it yet.

Cooley is now a fullback? Or is it Davis? Regardless neither is known for there blocking.

I honestly can't remember a real west coast system employing 2 TE's, or 4 WR's?

Now how about you come up with a point better than: They should've gotten OL / DL or Campbell won't be able to throw if he doesn't have time

Something better than that? I guess you don't find that important?
I thought the point was pretty pointed, a QB needs time to throw, and with an ageing line and no real depth that can be a real problem especially the way you have us utilizing all these receivers.

Tell me if the blocking is as it has been for the most part since Campbells arrival, how is he going to have the time to utilize a 4 receiver set?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

WOW, finally someone who can stuff 10lbs of bologna in a 5lbs bag.

4 WR sets? And wheres the nearest hospital? Because Campbell is on his way he just don't know it yet.

Cooley is now a fullback? Or is it Davis? Regardless neither is known for there blocking.

I honestly can't remember a real west coast system employing 2 TE's, or 4 WR's?



Something better than that? I guess you don't find that important?
I thought the point was pretty pointed, a QB needs time to throw, and with an ageing line and no real depth that can be a real problem especially the way you have us utilizing all these receivers.

Tell me if the blocking is as it has been for the most part since Campbells arrival, how is he going to have the time to utilize a 4 receiver set?

Keep in mind that Zorn has been heavily influenced by Holmgren...so with that in mind

Effective by any name: Holmgren disputes 'West Coast' title, not results

"We run a lot more single-back, four-receiver offense than we ever did in San Francisco," Holmgren said."

ESPN - Holmgren's scheme will be challenged by 3-4 look - NFL

"Sometimes, he'll use four-receiver sets, with plays similar to the run-and-shoot featuring one back. True to the West Coast offense, Holmgren also will run out of those multiple-receiver sets. "

And there's this

Zorn gets his ... men

"The addition of Davis will allow the Redskins to do what the Seahawks used to do when they had Itula Mili and Jerramy Stevens – which is, show two-tight end personnel in the huddle, only to go with a four-wide formation by slotting the tight ends."

And I'd hardly say we have no depth on the O Line. And I don't know what games you've been watching but the blocking has not been so abysmal as you imply since Campbell's arrival.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

4 WR sets? And wheres the nearest hospital? Because Campbell is on his way he just don't know it yet.

Cooley is now a fullback? Or is it Davis? Regardless neither is known for there blocking.

I honestly can't remember a real west coast system employing 2 TE's, or 4 WR's?

I seem to recall the Seahawks employing 4 wr sets very liberally, to tremendous effect. When a west coast system is run correctly it is very difficult to get to the quarterback since the ball is released so quickly.

[Fiend]

Hey all. First post here. I have been a Skins fan my whole life and I have lived in the NOVA area my whole life. I tend to agree with most of you about JLC.

I do want to say that I really liked the Skin's picks. I understand that we got a free pick and that what we did we could afford to do because of the awesome awesome trade they were able to pull of. I also like the fact that we took two shots on a WR and that the odds are we get a really good possibly great player out of one of them.

I can see the positives....but...

There are a couple of things I would have done differently and one would have been taking Quentin Groves or Calais Campbell instead of one of the guys we took in the 2nd. I would probably have leaned toward taking Groves over Campbell. In terms of pure pass rushing capability this kid is off the charts and was arguably the best pure pass rusher in the draft. He is a beast. Groves is smaller but that would give us more flexibility with him. Most people compare him to DeMarcus Ware.

Still cannot understand, and will probably never understand, why the Skins did not jump at one of those 2 guys when the DE position is so glaring of a need. If there is one thing that guys like JLC and Boswell have pegged it is that Snerrato run things like a fantasy team... and I am sure it is more of Snyder and his arrogance and child-like petulance.

I really would have loved for the Skins to have picked up Owen Schmitt from WVU... they would have needed to have used the 4th on him though. We do have Mike Sellers who is a hammerhead as well so this would have been a luxury pick and was used on something we need more. Schmitt is one guy that I thought could be the bigtime FB lead blocker that most teams covet. Plus he has very very good offensive skills... alot like Alstott in terms of running people over and always getting 2-3 yards... but he is just as big in the passing game. A true throwback.

I thought the Skins should have maybe taken a LB and Stanford Keglar (a 3 yr starter at Purdue) or Marcus Howard from Georgia and maybe Alvin Bowen would have been great picks with the 4th. I'm not sure about Tryon but he does sure sound like another Fred Smoot and that is OK in my book.... and we got some needed CB depth there.

I had no issues with the punter being taken. He was the best punter in the draft by far and alot of people think he might be an all-time great. I say kudos to that.... we may need to be able to pin people far downfield this year... moreso than the last few years.

I loved the picks of Moore and Horton. I have a feeling that BOTH of these guys may stick. Both like to hit like a mack truck.

Absolutely LOVED the Rinehart pick. This guy is going to be starting sooner rather than later. A real mauler and could be a huge steal.

So.... positives and negatives from this draft. All in all I can't really complain. There is still time to get a roster together so I am pretty sure we will see them pick up an extra DE, LB, OL, and DT as we go on towards the '08 season.

Can't wait to see the team on the field this year... particularly the offense!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Fiend

Hey all. First post here. I have been a Skins fan my whole life and I have lived in the NOVA area my whole life. I tend to agree with most of you about JLC.

I do want to say that I really liked the Skin's picks. I understand that we got a free pick and that what we did we could afford to do because of the awesome awesome trade they were able to pull of. I also like the fact that we took two shots on a WR and that the odds are we get a really good possibly great player out of one of them.

I can see the positives....but...

There are a couple of things I would have done differently and one would have been taking Quentin Groves or Calais Campbell instead of one of the guys we took in the 2nd. I would probably have leaned toward taking Groves over Campbell. In terms of pure pass rushing capability this kid is off the charts and was arguably the best pure pass rusher in the draft. He is a beast. Groves is smaller but that would give us more flexibility with him. Most people compare him to DeMarcus Ware.

Still cannot understand, and will probably never understand, why the Skins did not jump at one of those 2 guys when the DE position is so glaring of a need. If there is one thing that guys like JLC and Boswell have pegged it is that Snerrato run things like a fantasy team... and I am sure it is more of Snyder and his arrogance and child-like petulance.

I really would have loved for the Skins to have picked up Owen Schmitt from WVU... they would have needed to have used the 4th on him though. We do have Mike Sellers who is a hammerhead as well so this would have been a luxury pick and was used on something we need more. Schmitt is one guy that I thought could be the bigtime FB lead blocker that most teams covet. Plus he has very very good offensive skills... alot like Alstott in terms of running people over and always getting 2-3 yards... but he is just as big in the passing game. A true throwback.

I thought the Skins should have maybe taken a LB and Stanford Keglar (a 3 yr starter at Purdue) or Marcus Howard from Georgia and maybe Alvin Bowen would have been great picks with the 4th. I'm not sure about Tryon but he does sure sound like another Fred Smoot and that is OK in my book.... and we got some needed CB depth there.

I had no issues with the punter being taken. He was the best punter in the draft by far and alot of people think he might be an all-time great. I say kudos to that.... we may need to be able to pin people far downfield this year... moreso than the last few years.

I loved the picks of Moore and Horton. I have a feeling that BOTH of these guys may stick. Both like to hit like a mack truck.

Absolutely LOVED the Rinehart pick. This guy is going to be starting sooner rather than later. A real mauler and could be a huge steal.

So.... positives and negatives from this draft. All in all I can't really complain. There is still time to get a roster together so I am pretty sure we will see them pick up an extra DE, LB, OL, and DT as we go on towards the '08 season.

Can't wait to see the team on the field this year... particularly the offense!

It's simple, they were going by the best player available philisophy and they obviously didn't have those DE's graded out higher than the players they took.

They did have some DEs targeted but they got snatched up before they could grab them. That's how the draft goes sometimes.

Welcome to the board.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

Something better than that? I guess you don't find that important?
I thought the point was pretty pointed, a QB needs time to throw, and with an ageing line and no real depth that can be a real problem especially the way you have us utilizing all these receivers.

Tell me if the blocking is as it has been for the most part since Campbells arrival, how is he going to have the time to utilize a 4 receiver set?

You need to get your facts straight. SS took care of the other points. Here's some OL info from another post.

"No time to throw" would indicate a poor OL. Our OL was above average with all the injuries and as long as Joe Bugel is our line coach, no matter the talent, will continue to be at worst, average. Stats from 2007:

Sacks Allowed - NFL Rank 13th
Sack % - 12th

Rush Yds - 12th
Pass Yds - 14th
INTs - 4th lowest

The only poor OL stat was Yards per Carry and that has as much to do with the playcalling as OL performance.

Our OL has a Pro Bowl LT, a Pro Bowl caliber RG, a solid C, and an above average RT. The only immediate hole we have is at LG and we drafted a G in the 3rd who should be able to fill that position.

You may want to quit while you're behind.

[HOGTIMUS PRIME]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You need to get your facts straight. SS took care of the other points. Here's some OL info from another post.

"No time to throw" would indicate a poor OL. Our OL was above average with all the injuries and as long as Joe Bugel is our line coach, no matter the talent, will continue to be at worst, average. Stats from 2007:

Sacks Allowed - NFL Rank 13th
Sack % - 12th

Rush Yds - 12th
Pass Yds - 14th
INTs - 4th lowest

The only poor OL stat was Yards per Carry and that has as much to do with the playcalling as OL performance.

Our OL has a Pro Bowl LT, a Pro Bowl caliber RG, a solid C, and an above average RT. The only immediate hole we have is at LG and we drafted a G in the 3rd who should be able to fill that position.

You may want to quit while you're behind.

Your kidding right? So YPC is not the lines fault? We have been at the bottom of that category for years, are you proud of those numbers you sited? Not 1 top 10 category, with the exception of INT's and your not going to contribute that to conservative play calling?

Do you watch the games or just read the stats? Jansen can no longer hold the point of attack, he is constantly being pushed backwards which is in part a reason why he can't stay healthy any longer he is just being over powered he is also slowed down because he's been beaten to the outside far to frequent these days, both Thomas [if he can stay healthy] and Raback are quality players not great, yes samuels goes without saying.

It seems your awfully satisfied with as you put it "at best average"

So lets see if I got this correct, 1, YPC is not the offensive lines fault with a potential HOF RB in his prime running behind them. 2, #13 in sacks allowed in a if he's not open throw it away offense is good? How do explain a HOF coach with a top all time line coach in Bugel are average? Could it be the line? See those numbers that you site are low for 1 reason Gibbs had our QB's throw it away at the first sign of trouble, that is why we didn't have more sacks, that is why we didn't have more INT's, and still we were average in those categories.


See my facts are straight we just differ on what is acceptable, and average is not acceptable to me. I see big need for improvement on the O-line, you believe it will just happen because we are the redskins, and Bugel will wave his magic wand and fixes everything. I guess we can count the right side of the line staying healthy even though that has been a real problem recently especially when you consider there age? And a lot of stock in a 3rd rd pick to take over the left guard spot. And don't site Heyer to me he is a slow footed at best backup in this league who was beaten like a rented mule in the playoffs last season.

The bottom line is our line right now as it stands does not get a push off the ball they are not physical enough to CONTROL the LOS, they can possibly and I say POSSIBLY hold their ground but that is about it with this group, other than Samuels no one on this line can push D-linemen backwards, and that is a huge problem, it is also what makes them AVERAGE!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

WOW, finally someone who can stuff 10lbs of bologna in a 5lbs bag.

4 WR sets? And wheres the nearest hospital? Because Campbell is on his way he just don't know it yet.

Cooley is now a fullback? Or is it Davis? Regardless neither is known for there blocking.

I honestly can't remember a real west coast system employing 2 TE's, or 4 WR's?



Something better than that? I guess you don't find that important?
I thought the point was pretty pointed, a QB needs time to throw, and with an ageing line and no real depth that can be a real problem especially the way you have us utilizing all these receivers.

Tell me if the blocking is as it has been for the most part since Campbells arrival, how is he going to have the time to utilize a 4 receiver set?

I posted about this in another thread, Bill Walsh use to run 2 TE sets and Denver does as well. I'm pretty sure Green Bay under Holmgren did as well as Seattle now.

The WCO is like any other system, it's going to use multiple formations and 2 TE sets is in that mix somewhere.