F... gas prices

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by dmek25

the given in this whole thing is, we need gas. this pretty much constitutes a monopoly

No. By definition, the universal need for a product does not create a monoply. It is the control of the production by a single source that creates the monopoly. If multiple oil companies are in competition with one another, and lacking collusion, then oil will find its market value.

Originally Posted by dmek25

until there are other choices, this should be semi controlled/ watched by the government.

They are regulated out the wazoo which is one of the reasons gas prices are high.

Originally Posted by dmek25

this is a big difference between the Dem's and the G.O.P the republicans think that big business is above playing fair. while the Dem's think there is a point where you have enough of a profit margin

That's a pretty sweeping indictment and one that goes to the fundamental aspects of both the free market system and of our form of government. I also think it is pretty naive. "Playing fair", in my mind, means don't collude - compete. It does not mean - "Gosh jeepers don't make too much money."

You don't like how much the oil companies make? Buy a prius - get a job closer to your home, work with one car, ride mass transit. When those options are not practically available, work towards having the government create incentives to create alternative energy choices, increase mass transit, etc. Telling oil companies to stop profiting avoids your responsibility in the market system and in the democratic republican (i.e. government by popularly elected officials) form of government we have.

When you start injecting socialist controls into the free market based solely on the concept that some group is profiting too much from the system, you inject artificial elements into that system which are fundamentally opposed to and work against the system's basic structure, i.e. incentive to maximize your own gain - whether you be buyer or seller. In doing so, you destroy not just the incentive for oil companies to compete with one another, you also destroy the incentive for alternative energy forms to compete with oil.

Oversight is fine, but destruction of incentive by artificially capping profits is not the answer. In our government/economic system, you, I and others have the power, if we mobilize, to almost completely destroy the oil industry profits in the US economy by both decreasing demand and by finding alternatives to the internal combustion engine. But it OUR responsibility to do so.

[saden1]

Looks like I won't be driving to work much longer. My employer just jacked our monthly parking fee to $175. When you add gas into the mix that's almost $275 a month just to drive to and from work. Compare that to a subsidized $50 flex bus pass for an entire year taking the bus is no brainer.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

Looks like I won't be driving to work much longer. My employer just jacked our monthly parking fee to $175. When you add gas into the mix that's almost $275 a month just to drive to and from work. Compare that to a subsidized $50 flex bus pass for an entire year taking the bus is no brainer.

Less oil needed. JoeRedskins argument in action. If we all took the bus more we'd be better off in so many ways in our country.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

No. By definition, the universal need for a product does not create a monoply. It is the control of the production by a single source that creates the monopoly. If multiple oil companies are in competition with one another, and lacking collusion, then oil will find its market value.



They are regulated out the wazoo which is one of the reasons gas prices are high.



That's a pretty sweeping indictment and one that goes to the fundamental aspects of both the free market system and of our form of government. I also think it is pretty naive. "Playing fair", in my mind, means don't collude - compete. It does not mean - "Gosh jeepers don't make too much money."

You don't like how much the oil companies make? Buy a prius - get a job closer to your home, work with one car, ride mass transit. When those options are not practically available, work towards having the government create incentives to create alternative energy choices, increase mass transit, etc. Telling oil companies to stop profiting avoids your responsibility in the market system and in the democratic republican (i.e. government by popularly elected officials) form of government we have.

When you start injecting socialist controls into the free market based solely on the concept that some group is profiting too much from the system, you inject artificial elements into that system which are fundamentally opposed to and work against the system's basic structure, i.e. incentive to maximize your own gain - whether you be buyer or seller. In doing so, you destroy not just the incentive for oil companies to compete with one another, you also destroy the incentive for alternative energy forms to compete with oil.

Oversight is fine, but destruction of incentive by artificially capping profits is not the answer. In our government/economic system, you, I and others have the power, if we mobilize, to almost completely destroy the oil industry profits in the US economy by both decreasing demand and by finding alternatives to the internal combustion engine. But it OUR responsibility to do so.

The energy market is free market? That's news to me. These guys have very deep pockets and will crush anyone that attempts to subvert their flow of income. If the government won't step in no one can because they have too many people in their pockets and any new startup/ventures will get crushed ala Microsoft style (bought and shelved, blacklisted, undercut, or pounded into nebulous existence). Anyone that really thinks the "free market" can solve our problems is either naive or utterly stupid.

As for mass transit being an alternative, it could but only if the government actually invested in a decent transit infrastructure. As it stands, it takes way too long to catch a bus and we don't have any trains to speak off. If we actually invested money like the Europeans have we'll be in a good shape. Alas, their is no interest from our political leaders to do anything meaningful, and why should they, their money comes from lobbyists whose sole job is to fuck you over.