Who Should Be VP?

[The Goat]

I think McCain has a much more difficult job than Obama in terms of choosing a veep. It's relatively apparent what Obama could use most in a veep: someone w/ military background who can swing white, working-class and working poor voters (and who can help in economic policy). While I think Bloomberg would add some serious muscle to the Obama camp in terms of policy prowess (and the Jewish vote in Florida etc) it does nothing for him among white working class/poor voters. Jim Webb fits almost perfectly and could swing VA. Bob Kerrey or Chuck Hagel, both of Nebraska and extremely talented politicians, are less obvious but still interesting personalities.

With Mccain's veep the criterion is more complicated IMO. If the democrats actually run a 21st century campaign McCain will have to be very careful in who he chooses. First off, McCain needs somebody w/ a strong comprehension of economic policy. His admission that it is not a strong point for himself will be low lying fruit for tough campaign adds starting this summer, so he needs to bring someone to the table that can hit back hard. Then McCain has to choose someone to energize the religious right and I think it will be a tougher challenge than people expect. My maternal relatives are evangelical conservatives to the bone - they f'n hate McCain almost as much as they hate democrats, Europeans, most minorities and well... anybody who doesn't look, act, talk, and think the way they do. Romney, Huckleberry, or Paul could probably help but I don't really know how much (I don't understand the way they think). But the issue that could play biggest, depending on how clever the dems want to be, is that the veep on the republican ticket is essentially running for pres as well because of McCain's age and the immense stress of the oval office. For the first time ever the veep could see as much scrutiny as the pres, which means a much tougher road to travel IMO.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think McCain has a much more difficult job than Obama in terms of choosing a veep. It's relatively apparent what Obama could use most in a veep: someone w/ military background who can swing white, working-class and working poor voters (and who can help in economic policy). While I think Bloomberg would add some serious muscle to the Obama camp in terms of policy prowess (and the Jewish vote in Florida etc) it does nothing for him among white working class/poor voters. Jim Webb fits almost perfectly and could swing VA. Bob Kerrey or Chuck Hagel, both of Nebraska and extremely talented politicians, are less obvious but still interesting personalities.

With Mccain's veep the criterion is more complicated IMO. If the democrats actually run a 21st century campaign McCain will have to be very careful in who he chooses. First off, McCain needs somebody w/ a strong comprehension of economic policy. His admission that it is not a strong point for himself will be low lying fruit for tough campaign adds starting this summer, so he needs to bring someone to the table that can hit back hard. Then McCain has to choose someone to energize the religious right and I think it will be a tougher challenge than people expect. My maternal relatives are evangelical conservatives to the bone - they f'n hate McCain almost as much as they hate democrats, Europeans, most minorities and well... anybody who doesn't look, act, talk, and think the way they do. Romney, Huckleberry, or Paul could probably help but I don't really know how much (I don't understand the way they think). But the issue that could play biggest, depending on how clever the dems want to be, is that the veep on the republican ticket is essentially running for pres as well because of McCain's age and the immense stress of the oval office. For the first time ever the veep could see as much scrutiny as the pres, which means a much tougher road to travel IMO.

I mildly disagree with a couple of points you make. Very respectfully I might add.

This idea that Bloomberg can add something to a ticket, I just don't see it. First of all, no one really knows what his appeal is outside of New York. Sure he's the Mayor of the largest city, has deep pockets, and he's pretty damn smart, but that doesn't always translate to votes. Which leads me to my second point about Bloomberg, if his being Mayor of New York would translate to votes in Florida, then Rudy Giuliani would have never been forced to drop out of the race so early. Rudy had a one state strategy - win Florida. If he couldn't carry Florida with all of his connections to the Jewish vote, then what good was he afterall? Well guess what happened, McCain took his ass to the cleaners in Florida, and Bloomberg took pause.

If Rudy, with all of his popularity couldn't swing enough of the Jewish vote to his favor, I have serious doubts whether or not Bloomberg could do any better.

Secondly, the idea that Obama has white working class voter problem is seriously overstated. It's just not accurate. This is something that has plagued the Dems for years, it's not specific to Obama. Obama does have an up hill battle with a very specific white voter, within a specific demographic. But to suggest that he's not getting white working classs people, male or female, to vote for him just isn't true.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I mildly disagree with a couple of points you make. Very respectfully I might add.

This idea that Bloomberg can add something to a ticket, I just don't see it. First of all, no one really knows what his appeal is outside of New York. Sure he's the Mayor of the largest city, has deep pockets, and he's pretty damn smart, but that doesn't always translate to votes. Which leads me to my second point about Bloomberg, if his being Mayor of New York would translate to votes in Florida, then Rudy Giuliani would have never been forced to drop out of the race so early. Rudy had a one state strategy - win Florida. If he couldn't carry Florida with all of his connections to the Jewish vote, then what good was he afterall? Well guess what happened, McCain took his ass to the cleaners in Florida, and Bloomberg took pause.

If Rudy, with all of his popularity couldn't swing enough of the Jewish vote to his favor, I have serious doubts whether or not Bloomberg could do any better.

Secondly, the idea that Obama has white working class voter problem is seriously overstated. It's just not accurate. This is something that has plagued the Dems for years, it's not specific to Obama. Obama does have an up hill battle with a very specific white voter, within a specific demographic. But to suggest that he's not getting white working classs people, male or female, to vote for him just isn't true.

My apologies for not being clear. I think Bloomberg brings muscle in terms of policy, and I mean he would bring policy acumen to any admin dem or republican. Like I said he doesn't do much for Obama politically.

As for Obama I hope you're right. Clinton seems to have done better w/ white working-class and working-poor than he has, but I don't really know how that translates into November facing McCain. I want to give props to Obama for being the most articulate, charismatic person the dems have seen in a decade and therefor he should have the best shot at communicating reasonable middle-class policies that somehow go unnoticed. One case in point I always think of here is the Family Act from the 1st clinton term that gave women the right to keep their jobs and get some extra time after pregnancy. I don't even know how many moms i've worked w/ who took every hour of leave time when they could but talk about clinton like he personally screwed them over at some point. Dems need to do a much better job communicating policy and values and Obama IMO could be have enormous success there.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think McCain has a much more difficult job than Obama in terms of choosing a veep. It's relatively apparent what Obama could use most in a veep: someone w/ military background who can swing white, working-class and working poor voters (and who can help in economic policy). While I think Bloomberg would add some serious muscle to the Obama camp in terms of policy prowess (and the Jewish vote in Florida etc) it does nothing for him among white working class/poor voters. Jim Webb fits almost perfectly and could swing VA. Bob Kerrey or Chuck Hagel, both of Nebraska and extremely talented politicians, are less obvious but still interesting personalities.

With Mccain's veep the criterion is more complicated IMO. If the democrats actually run a 21st century campaign McCain will have to be very careful in who he chooses. First off, McCain needs somebody w/ a strong comprehension of economic policy. His admission that it is not a strong point for himself will be low lying fruit for tough campaign adds starting this summer, so he needs to bring someone to the table that can hit back hard. Then McCain has to choose someone to energize the religious right and I think it will be a tougher challenge than people expect. My maternal relatives are evangelical conservatives to the bone - they f'n hate McCain almost as much as they hate democrats, Europeans, most minorities and well... anybody who doesn't look, act, talk, and think the way they do. Romney, Huckleberry, or Paul could probably help but I don't really know how much (I don't understand the way they think). But the issue that could play biggest, depending on how clever the dems want to be, is that the veep on the republican ticket is essentially running for pres as well because of McCain's age and the immense stress of the oval office. For the first time ever the veep could see as much scrutiny as the pres, which means a much tougher road to travel IMO.

Webb might me able to swing Virginia in an election that Obama would win anyway, but I doubt it. Edwards had no effect on North Carolina and Obama would be much better advised to batten down his hatches in Pennsylvania and Michigan. I keep hearing how BHO can win in Virginia, but as a lontime resident of the Commonwealth, I think it's more dicey than people like Tim Russert or Chris Matthews seem to understand. He needs to first secure the states that Gore and Kerry won and then go after a swing state like Ohio. Besides, Webb would not be able to hide his wife anymore if he were Veep candidate. He hid her so well in his Senatorial campaign that I had to do internet research to figure out who she was 2 years ago. She's Asian and she's quite a bit younger than he is, which is fine with me, but he was hiding the fact from Virginians for some reason. Some pollster said something to him. He love her not very long time. I'm just saying.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Webb might me able to swing Virginia in an election that Obama would win anyway, but I doubt it. Edwards had no effect on North Carolina and Obama would be much better advised to batten down his hatches in Pennsylvania and Michigan. I keep hearing how BHO can win in Virginia, but as a lontime resident of the Commonwealth, I think it's more dicey than people like Tim Russert or Chris Matthews seem to understand. He needs to first secure the states that Gore and Kerry won and then go after a swing state like Ohio. Besides, Webb would not be able to hide his wife anymore if he were Veep candidate. He hid her so well in his Senatorial campaign that I had to do internet research to figure out who she was 2 years ago. She's Asian and she's quite a bit younger than he is, which is fine with me, but he was hiding the fact from Virginians for some reason. Some pollster said something to him. He love her not very long time. I'm just saying.

Interesting point you bring up about Webb's wife. She probably helped him, being Vietnamese, win the Asian vote in Virginia. But you have to wonder whether or not she becomes a liabilty on a national ticket. I'm thinking purely from a race perspective.

I mean the way the GOP has already begun to go after Michelle Obama, I wonder what craziness they could manufacture on Webb's wife.

I don't think people can digest too much change in one election.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Interesting point you bring up about Webb's wife. She probably helped him, being Vietnamese, win the Asian vote in Virginia. But you have to wonder whether or not she becomes a liabilty on a national ticket. I'm thinking purely from a race perspective.

I mean the way the GOP has already begun to go after Michelle Obama, I wonder what craziness they could manufacture on Webb's wife.

I don't think people can digest too much change in one election.

I don't know what help she could have been since no one saw her until he had already won. You know how politicians parade their families in front of the cameras every chance they get, I grew suspicious. Is he single? Is he an homosexual, I wondered? Then after all the votes were counted they appeared together, and my Korean American brother in law gave me a knowing look and said, "She love him long time". That's all I'm saying.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Webb might me able to swing Virginia in an election that Obama would win anyway, but I doubt it. Edwards had no effect on North Carolina and Obama would be much better advised to batten down his hatches in Pennsylvania and Michigan. I keep hearing how BHO can win in Virginia, but as a lontime resident of the Commonwealth, I think it's more dicey than people like Tim Russert or Chris Matthews seem to understand. He needs to first secure the states that Gore and Kerry won and then go after a swing state like Ohio. Besides, Webb would not be able to hide his wife anymore if he were Veep candidate. He hid her so well in his Senatorial campaign that I had to do internet research to figure out who she was 2 years ago. She's Asian and she's quite a bit younger than he is, which is fine with me, but he was hiding the fact from Virginians for some reason. Some pollster said something to him. He love her not very long time. I'm just saying.

Wasn't she "hiding" because she was pregnant for much of the campaign?

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Wasn't she "hiding" because she was pregnant for much of the campaign?

Why would you hide that? What screams "family values" louder than a wife with a baby bump? No, he was poll reading. He fancies himself an expert on the inhabitants of this region and he determined that the good people of Virginia would reaxt negatively to an Asian wife. I would have put her out front, but he endeavored to keep her a secret. Whatever.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Why would you hide that? What screams "family values" louder than a wife with a baby bump? No, he was poll reading. He fancies himself an expert on the inhabitants of this region and he determined that the good people of Virginia would reaxt negatively to an Asian wife. I would have put her out front, but he endeavored to keep her a secret. Whatever.

So if you don't parade your wife like every politician you're hiding her? What if she didn't want to be part of his campaigning? Are we picking the wife or the guy running for office?

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by saden1

So if you don't parade your wife like every politician you're hiding her? What if she didn't want to be part of his campaigning? Are we picking the wife or the guy running for office?

He hid her. That's all I'm saying.