Backup center discussion

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think the potential problem is with his height. At 6-6 that's really tall for a center and opposing defensive lineman would have an advantage regarding leverage and getting under his pads. He would have to play awfully low. And then there's the potential issue with the shotgun. Snapping in the gun is not an easy thing to do and it's something that requires a lot of practice.

1. Santana Moss is only 5'10" and plays reciever against taller corners with a height advantage, but still manages to get the job done. The height thing is no excuse to me.

2. The skins have not run the WCO but are doing it this year. It is going to take alot of practice but they will get it done.

3. We are doing several things against the norm, but they are nothing to hyperventilate over. These guys are all still professional athletes.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Angry

1. Santana Moss is only 5'10" and plays reciever against taller corners with a height advantage, but still manages to get the job done. The height thing is no excuse to me.

2. The skins have not run the WCO but are doing it this year. It is going to take alot of practice but they will get it done.

3. We are doing several things against the norm, but they are nothing to hyperventilate over. These guys are all still professional athletes.

I'm not saying height is an excuse, it's just a potential issue at that position. There's a good reason why 6-6 centers aren't common.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think the potential problem is with his height. At 6-6 that's really tall for a center and opposing defensive lineman would have an advantage regarding leverage and getting under his pads. He would have to play awfully low. And then there's the potential issue with the shotgun. Snapping in the gun is not an easy thing to do and it's something that requires a lot of practice.

One problem that Campbell had last year was that he was having to almost squat on the ground when he was under center and I know that was something the coaching staff wanted to address for next season. Could be the reason why they were trying Jansen out there. And, maybe it looks like the road for JJ is coming to an end, especially with his rash of injuries the past few seasons.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

One problem that Campbell had last year was that he was having to almost squat on the ground when he was under center and I know that was something the coaching staff wanted to address for next season. Could be the reason why they were trying Jansen out there. And, maybe it looks like the road for JJ is coming to an end, especially with his rash of injuries the past few seasons.

I remember Zorn saying at some point he wanted to work with Rabach on staying higher in his stance to help out JC in that regard.

[Sheppdog]

I think that you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. How hard is it to slam the ball into your taint before you engage in a block?

HAHA yea seriously Jansen will probably get hurt again and Rabach will be fine. All this fuss is about who can slam a ball into their taint better then who.

[firstdown]

I'm sure all they are doing is having Jansen pratice so if they loose Rebach in the middle of a game we have his back up. Then we could have our back up center on the pratice sq. and not taking up a spot on the active roster. I also heard Buges interviewed last week on the Riggo show and he said both Thomas and Jansen have come into to camp in very good shape after rehab. He said they are knockin players off the ball and the entire O line looks really good. They have Heyer (speeling) playing both sides of the line and he has really come along way this off season. He thought that our depth was strong and that he was very comfortable with our O Line.

[Crash]

Once Crummey can get healthy I think he is going to be a great addition to the line. From what I saw of him at Maryland, I think he will be solid at guard or center.

[Schneed10]

Sounds like a whole lot of hope and not a lot of substance from the "we'll be fine" camp.

First, you don't do a whole lot of "blowing people off the ball" in OTAs. They're non-contact and no pads.

As Matty mentioned, Jansen is tall and will be easy for DTs to get under should he be forced into center duty. Also, with longer legs, the higher the chance is he'll step back on JC's feet.

The real problem with this situation is that if one guy gets hurt (Rabach), we essentially have two backups coming onto the field. Jansen moves to C, which makes me nervous as it is for reasons already mentioned, and on top of that Heyer comes in to play RT. Two backups at once, with Randy Thomas (the RG) in the middle of all that shifting, will all of a sudden have to get used to two changes on that side of the line. That sounds like a disaster from an assignment standpoint.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Sounds like a whole lot of hope and not a lot of substance from the "we'll be fine" camp.

First, you don't do a whole lot of "blowing people off the ball" in OTAs. They're non-contact and no pads.

As Matty mentioned, Jansen is tall and will be easy for DTs to get under should he be forced into center duty. Also, with longer legs, the higher the chance is he'll step back on JC's feet.

The real problem with this situation is that if one guy gets hurt (Rabach), we essentially have two backups coming onto the field. Jansen moves to C, which makes me nervous as it is for reasons already mentioned, and on top of that Heyer comes in to play RT. Two backups at once, with Randy Thomas (the RG) in the middle of all that shifting, will all of a sudden have to get used to two changes on that side of the line. That sounds like a disaster from an assignment standpoint.

True but from Bugel's standpoint the 5 best healthy players will be on the field in that situation. I understand our concern, but I feel he is more qualified to decide what is best for the team, at least until the Oline situation stinks and does not work; then we can lynch him (Bugel).

[GMScud]

Fortunately Rabach has been very durable. He's been a full time starter at C since the beginning of the '04 season, and has only missed one game in that 4 season span.

Based simply on the law of averages, our offensive line has gotta have a healthy season. No way we can be that ravaged again. Law of averages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Fortunately Rabach has been very durable. He's been a full time starter at C since the beginning of the '04 season, and has only missed one game in that 4 season span.

Based simply on the law of averages, our offensive line has gotta have a healthy season. No way we can be that ravaged again. Law of averages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LOL

I hope you were being purposefully sarcastic/ironic. Because this is what it says on Wiki:

As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects bad statistics or wishful thinking rather than any mathematical principle.

Interesting link though. It has a fascinating discussion on random events, such as flipping a coin... or other gambling phenomenon.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

LOL

I hope you were being purposefully sarcastic/ironic. Because this is what it says on Wiki:



Interesting link though. It has a fascinating discussion on random events, such as flipping a coin... or other gambling phenomenon.

Actually not really. While lots of variables factor into injuries- stretching, conditioning, smart play, etc- it's largely random and dumb luck. Not as much as so as flipping a coin, but close. Kinda like JC somehow not blowing out his knee in that preseason game because his foot didn't stick in the turf. Dumb luck. Given last year's miserable rash of injuries to a historically durable group of lineman, it would be pretty unprecedented if it repeated itself just one season later.

Sure there's no real science to it, but isn't wishful thinking what the offseason is all about?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Angry

True but from Bugel's standpoint the 5 best healthy players will be on the field in that situation. I understand our concern, but I feel he is more qualified to decide what is best for the team, at least until the Oline situation stinks and does not work; then we can lynch him (Bugel).

So long as it's recognized that this opinion basically says "I don't have any good reasons why this will work, but I'm putting my faith in a very qualified O Line coach." then I've got no beef.

I can't fault you for thinking Bugel is a good coach and good evaluator of talent.

But you have to ask yourself, are we going with Jansen at backup center because Bugel thinks it will work, are are we doing it because the front office didn't get Bugel any better backup C options in FA or the draft?

Bugel believes in his guys, and he believes he can make the best out of any situation. The question isn't Joe Bugel. The question is the situation: was he given what he needs at backup C to succeed?

I say no. Hopefully Rabach stays healthy all 16 so we don't have to find out.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So long as it's recognized that this opinion basically says "I don't have any good reasons why this will work, but I'm putting my faith in a very qualified O Line coach." then I've got no beef.

I can't fault you for thinking Bugel is a good coach and good evaluator of talent.

But you have to ask yourself, are we going with Jansen at backup center because Bugel thinks it will work, are are we doing it because the front office didn't get Bugel any better backup C options in FA or the draft?

Bugel believes in his guys, and he believes he can make the best out of any situation. The question isn't Joe Bugel. The question is the situation: was he given what he needs at backup C to succeed?

I say no. Hopefully Rabach stays healthy all 16 so we don't have to find out.

I think given the circumstances, Bugel hopes it will work. By "circumstances" I mean the Skins not getting him a guard/center type player to fill that role. I highly doubt Buges told Vinny & Co to not bother addressing this need because we've got. Doesn't make much sense to have a starter at one vital position also be the #1 backup at another vital position.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I think given the circumstances, Bugel hopes it will work. By "circumstances" I mean the Skins not getting him a guard/center type player to fill that role. I highly doubt Buges told Vinny & Co to not bother addressing this need because we've got. Doesn't make much sense to have a starter at one vital position also be the #1 backup at another vital position.

Exactly. I guess that's the whole point. The situation bites.