Ted Nugent on Gun Control

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's a good link.

But do you know what strikes me more than anything?
There was 31,000 gun related deaths, yet there are approx. 4.9 million tobacco related deaths in the world a year. In the US, there are 438,000 tobacco related deaths (approximately 1 in 5 deaths overall are tobacco related), and even MORE important, 38,000 (that's right 7k MORE deaths than guns) are directly related to SECOND HAND smoke. And people are up in arms about being able to defend yourself while cigarettes provide no defense.
Interesting that second hand smoke is statistically MORE deadly than guns themselves. WOW.

Tobacco-Related Mortality | OSH | CDC

With the utmost respect for your opinion, I must disagree with the analysis.

Second hand smoke is not "more dangerous" than guns because it results in more deaths. Second hand smoke is way more prevalent in society, that's why it causes more deaths. Way more people are exposed to second hand smoke than are exposed to guns.

Now, there are plenty of guns in the US, legal or not. But a good portion of them stay locked away or otherwise secured safely. Many more people are exposed to smoking, hence the higher death numbers.

This anaylsis is akin to saying that the flu is more dangerous than small pox because more people die from the flu than small pox. It may be mathematically true, but only because nobody gets exposed to small pox.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

With the utmost respect for your opinion, I must disagree with the analysis.

Second hand smoke is not "more dangerous" than guns because it results in more deaths. Second hand smoke is way more prevalent in society, that's why it causes more deaths. Way more people are exposed to second hand smoke than are exposed to guns.

Now, there are plenty of guns in the US, legal or not. But a good portion of them stay locked away or otherwise secured safely. Many more people are exposed to smoking, hence the higher death numbers.

This anaylsis is akin to saying that the flu is more dangerous than small pox because more people die from the flu than small pox. It may be mathematically true, but only because nobody gets exposed to small pox.

I have been exposed to small pox. Of coarse it was the preventative type of exposure.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

With the utmost respect for your opinion, I must disagree with the analysis.

Second hand smoke is not "more dangerous" than guns because it results in more deaths. Second hand smoke is way more prevalent in society, that's why it causes more deaths. Way more people are exposed to second hand smoke than are exposed to guns.

Now, there are plenty of guns in the US, legal or not. But a good portion of them stay locked away or otherwise secured safely. Many more people are exposed to smoking, hence the higher death numbers.

This anaylsis is akin to saying that the flu is more dangerous than small pox because more people die from the flu than small pox. It may be mathematically true, but only because nobody gets exposed to small pox.

That's a good valid argument.
However, the second hand smoke argument was only part of the argument (and the 2nd part at that, I just ran with it cause I wasn't expecting to see those numbers), what about the 4.9 mil that die from tobacco related deaths world wide?

Also, your argument helps my point that it's more important to stop tobacco than it is to stop guns since we are much more likely to be exposed to smoke. Let's also keep in mind the MASSIVE amount of medical assistance required by tobacco related issues that we pay for with our insurances.

ps- the guns that are locked away aren't the ones causing the problems, but they are the ones that will be taken away.


On a side note, I appreciate your candor.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's a good valid argument.
However, the second hand smoke argument was only part of the argument (and the 2nd part at that, I just ran with it cause I wasn't expecting to see those numbers), what about the 4.9 mil that die from tobacco related deaths world wide?

Also, your argument helps my point that it's more important to stop tobacco than it is to stop guns since we are much more likely to be exposed to smoke. Let's also keep in mind the MASSIVE amount of medical assistance required by tobacco related issues that we pay for with our insurances.

ps- the guns that are locked away aren't the ones causing the problems, but they are the ones that will be taken away.


On a side note, I appreciate your candor.

I would agree with the general notion that smoking is a bigger threat to public health than guns are. If I were going through the exercise of setting the federal budget, I'd invest significantly more in stop smoking programs than I would gun control.

But as for the 4.9 million tobacco deaths worldwide, again, that's due to the massive exposure to cigarrette smoke and other forms of tobacco. Approximately 20% of Americans smoke, and the % is higher worldwide. Nowhere near that % are exposed to guns.

All this is to say that increasing exposure to guns by allowing more on the street raises the acute risk of accidental death, suicide, and homicide.

In the end, I would rather see 1000 armed muggers escape Scott-free with the wallet of an unarmed victim than see one child killed by a stray bullet resulting from a gunfire exchange between said armed mugger and an armed victim.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

In the end, I would rather see 1000 armed muggers escape Scott-free with the wallet of an unarmed victim than see one child killed by a stray bullet resulting from a gunfire exchange between said armed mugger and an armed victim.

So you'd rather see someone robbed than someone killed? I think most people would. The problem is that of those 1000 people robbed, not all of them will escape unscathed by said armed mugger.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

In the end, I would rather see 1000 armed muggers escape Scott-free with the wallet of an unarmed victim than see one child killed by a stray bullet resulting from a gunfire exchange between said armed mugger and an armed victim.

Which poses three questions, if the mugger's bullet killed the innocent child he (in a vast majority of cases) obtained his weapon illegally, gun control laws won't stop him.

The other question is who would you rather see die, the innocent child or the innocent mugging victim. If strict gun control laws are in place, the mugging victim won't have a firearm to protect him/herself and if he/she resists he/she would be killed by the mugger. Probably no gunfire exchange so the innocent child is safe.

The third question is sort of a follow-on to the second, say gun control laws are in place so the mugger knows most people won't have firearms to fight back and won't put up much resistance once they see his weapon, making his job easier. But what about the unarmed female who is now also a potential rape victim?

I know we can throw statistics out all day long, but at the end of the day areas which allow conceal and carry permits and have less gun regulation for law abiding citizens tend to have lower crime rates. I own firearms and although the area I live in is pretty safe, I am able to protect my family if need be, not wait for the police and morgue to show up.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Which poses three questions, if the mugger's bullet killed the innocent child he (in a vast majority of cases) obtained his weapon illegally, gun control laws won't stop him.

The other question is who would you rather see die, the innocent child or the innocent mugging victim. If strict gun control laws are in place, the mugging victim won't have a firearm to protect him/herself and if he/she resists he/she would be killed by the mugger. Probably no gunfire exchange so the innocent child is safe.

The third question is sort of a follow-on to the second, say gun control laws are in place so the mugger knows most people won't have firearms to fight back and won't put up much resistance once they see his weapon, making his job easier. But what about the unarmed female who is now also a potential rape victim?

I know we can throw statistics out all day long, but at the end of the day areas which allow conceal and carry permits and have less gun regulation for law abiding citizens tend to have lower crime rates. I own firearms and although the area I live in is pretty safe, I am able to protect my family if need be, not wait for the police and morgue to show up.

Exactly...very good post. You are only hurting the legal owners who don't pose a problem.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I would agree with the general notion that smoking is a bigger threat to public health than guns are. If I were going through the exercise of setting the federal budget, I'd invest significantly more in stop smoking programs than I would gun control.

But as for the 4.9 million tobacco deaths worldwide, again, that's due to the massive exposure to cigarrette smoke and other forms of tobacco. Approximately 20% of Americans smoke, and the % is higher worldwide. Nowhere near that % are exposed to guns.

All this is to say that increasing exposure to guns by allowing more on the street raises the acute risk of accidental death, suicide, and homicide.

In the end, I would rather see 1000 armed muggers escape Scott-free with the wallet of an unarmed victim than see one child killed by a stray bullet resulting from a gunfire exchange between said armed mugger and an armed victim.

Well, oddly enough, I respect that opinion. Problem is, we're talking about deaths, not exposure. The deaths speak for themselves. You are 100% right about exposure, but you also have to calculate for the fact that bearing arms is constitutional right. Harming someone with a cigarette (even yourself) is not. All in all, I understand where you're coming from.

I would like to add, I am not sure I agree with your 1000 armed muggers vs 1 stray kid. First off, I am not sure of the stats, but I am assuming it's far more mugged to each stray innocent child. That being said, those mugged people become victims and very jaded after each offense, and therefore become harder individuals making society less pleasant. I'm not saying they will become hard criminals, but you can't be held up at gun point and it not change you a little. No one wants to see children die, but there are more "shaken baby" deaths than there are accidental children deaths from guns. Unfortunately there are always negatives to everything. Keep in mind, I am all for criminals not having guns, they have them illegally. If you can come up with a plan to keep guns out of their hands, I'm down. But don't take a gun out of my hand. Even if the government banned them, I'd still keep mine.
You can't stop EVERY negative, look at that kid that died by a roller coaster. There have been numerous roller coaster deaths over the years, but that doesn't mean we should overreact and ban roller coasters.