Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by That Guy

DE WR right? we tried for cj and got the 3 highest rated pass catcher in the draft, so... also covered safety with ss and drafted some warm bodies, got 3 quality OL depth prospects, and even got a couple DEs that won't do us all that much good.

Rare is the rookie WR or DE that comes in their first year and is an impact player. Rare indeed.

[sportscurmudgeon]

sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

Prediction: None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

sandtrapjack:

Agree that WRs often do not set the NFL world afire as rookies. But look at what these rookies are trying to augment:

Brandon Lloyd is gone - - and hopefully forgotten by everyone at this point.

Santana Moss catches LOADS of first down passes in the middle of the field - - but when it really matters down in the red zone he is very - VERY - ordinary.

ARE is really ordinary all of the time.

Now, if the new WRs can't work into the system and make the totality of the Skins WRs better than the MOss/Lloyd/ARE/Thrash crew has been for the past two years, then the draftees SUCK - - and it doesn't matter even a little bit what the scouting services say about them.

Prediction: None of the Skins' WR draftees will be unanimous All-Pro selections and none will be player of the year - - but they will as a group be better than Brandon Lloyd was in his lamentable stint here in DC.

No disrespect intended. On the contrary, I think the way the off season as gone for Washington is a direction they should have gone 3 years ago.

Once you draft a potential franchise QB in Campbell, the next step should be drafting and surrounding him with a supporting cast. I think the additions Thomas and Kelly are a solid step in that direction.

If I were you I would table the Red Zone concerns for a while. Santana Moss is a speedy reciever and is great for getting a team from one 20 yard line to the other 20 yard line. But once in the Red Zone, speed does not help on a short field. This is where I think the addition of Kelly will "show it's teeth". He has the size to be a great red zone target. And with Cooley and Kelly (along with Portis) in the Red Zone, well lets just say I think that is a great combination of size and talent that makes the future very bright indeed.

No disrespect to Joe Gibbs, but his aversion to throwing the ball in the red zone is very well known. But with the West Coast offense now coming in place with Zorn, it is just the opposite. Campbell looks to be getting those supporting cast members in place. It may not be this year, but I think the 'Skins took a substatial leap forward this off-season.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Rare is the rookie WR or DE that comes in their first year and is an impact player. Rare indeed.

Especially WR's. Outside of QB it takes them the longest to make an impact.

[Coff]

Whatever. I'll give them Kudos when they field a team that goes deep into the playoffs or has back to back playoff seasons; until then I'll recognize them as nothing more or less than two people who have been running a mediocre NFL team for nearly a decade.

[steveo395]

Yea this offseason has pretty much gone perfectly so far, but that could all change once the games start. But hopefully Zorn will be the man and Campbell will break out

[SouperMeister]

I've always been a huge fan of stability in personnel and primarily building depth through the draft. I'm very pleased that we traded out of the first round, yet still got what we felt was 1st round talent. If our O-line stays healthy, I'm excited about all the weapons we have to pressure opposing defenses. This offseason may lack sizzle, but its substance will be measurable, especially in terms of giving Campbell tools to lead our franchise to the next level.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Let me be clear. The title of this thread is not sarcastic. I want to praise these two men for what they have done in this off-season.

Everyone here knows that I have been more than slightly critical of these men in the past for their football decisions. Now I want to say they did something very good for the team.

Let me begin by defining what I mean by a "starter" in the NFL. A "starter" is someone who a team puts in a starting position on opening day. If that "starter" has a season ending injury early in the season - - say the second game - - and another player steps in and starts all or most of the rest of the games at that position, then that second player is also a "starter".

With that definition, I believe there are only two teams in the NFL who have not lost any of their "starters" in this off-season. Those two teams would be the Cleveland Browns and the Washington Redskins.

Continuity is important to a football team; the Redskins have not had a lot of that in recent years. Building on your team via the draft is important to a football team; the Redskins have not done that very well in recent years.

But this year they have done it and so Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato.

Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.

first, that's a mighty assumption right there, and second, he's played in a form of WCO in college.

third, what happens if cooley gets hurt?

fourth, you know who else they picked in the third round after he "played against scrubs"? his name's chris cooley.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by That Guy

first, that's a mighty assumption right there, and second, he's played in a form of WCO in college.

third, what happens if cooley gets hurt?

fourth, you know who else they picked in the third round after he "played against scrubs"? his name's chris cooley.

I heard JC on the radio say it himself. Plus look at some of the games. He was running that no huddle to perfection when conservative ass Gibbs actually let him do it. You have to look around in your own division. Is McNabb learning a new offense year after year after year? Nope. It just puts everyone back to square one when all the teams around you go into camp already knowing the playbook. Trust me. It's a pretty big deal. And it's not just the QB. The WR's have a learning curve too.

I'm just questioning the drafting of Davis. It could be a good move. But I'm not giving any kudos until the season starts. That's when we'll see. The guy was lazy as hell at USC, was always late to meetings and didn't work hard. Didn't put in the extra work to get better. But that was also said about A. Montgomery too so lets hope Davis learns to become a pro both on and off the field like AM has.

Cooley played at a division one school. Yes Utah State isn't the SEC but they do play Pac Ten teams. They do play good divison one competition.
Look, I'm not saying guys that that play at small schools can't play in the NFL. That's silly. But Reinhart was a 5th or 6th rounder on everyone's board. I hope he turns out to be a good player but the pick was questionable when we had so many other needs.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.

I'll disagree w/ you on the draft as i think we did a pretty good job this year. I'll also disagree on JC mastering Al Saunders O.

I do agree that i think getting rid of Gregg W. was a mistake and we may see the lack of overachieving on D this year. I hope not, but GW had a way of getting more w/ less. Blache...well we really don't know.

Regardless, if you like Al S. he is a proven commodity. You don't have top rated O's year after year if you don't know what you are doing. He knows what he's doing. Did he have all of the tools here? Was he undercut by Gibbs? Whatever the reason, it never panned out but it had only been 2 seasons. BTW, he was hamstrung by Gibbs.

As far as Vinny and Danny...wins and losses?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Are u nuts? They almost gave up 2 first round draft picks for a 30 year old crybaby wr who wants a new contract. The only thing that saved them from their own stupidity was Mike Brown, who is even dumber ( than Vinny and Dan) when it comes to football IQ.

On top of that they get rid of Greg Williams who we all know was the best man for the job. Who cares if you're not butt buddies? This isn't the business of being raquetball butt buddies. Snyder will never ever understand this. He wants someone to coach his team that he can be friends with.

Then....right when JC was about to master Al's offense you fire Saunders for a guy who has never called plays or ran an NFL offense. That guy runs a version of the west coast offesne so JC has to learn yet ANOTHER offense.

One top of all that Vinny has a VERY questionable draft by taking a lazy ass TE when we already have a pro bowl TE. Then you take Reinhart who played against scrubs and wasn't projected to go until the later rounds.

Sorry but I'm not giving any kudos to these two.

Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

I think the best thing the FO did this year was going with Blache as DC. If he would have had any interest he would have gotten the HC position and done a great job. I am a fan of Grilliams but too many conflicting egos hurts even a good team. We'll have to rely on the defense for a year or two but if the offense can keep TO's to a minimum and score more than 13 points a game we should be competitive.

We'll see if they can keep the slow and steady approach after an 8-8 season and eradict play from the offense. I hope so.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

We don't have any playmakers on the front 7. Yes we have solid guys but where are the guys that cause havoc? That's why we don't have turnovers and sacks.

And I'm not blaming the defesne for giving up leads when our offese got so conservative it's wasn't even funny.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Sorry for going OT but...

Why all the man love for Grilliams? We had good defenses statistically generally while he was here, but with 4 first round picks (RIP Sean) in the secondary, proven veterans on the line (Carter, Griffin, Daniels) and at LB (Fletcher, Washington) shouldn't we have a good D?? It's not like we are running street free agents out there and having a top 10 defense.

For all that Gregg (second G for genius of course) did, we were consistently near the bottom of the league in generating turnovers, near the bottom in defensive touchdowns, middle of the pack in sacks and middle of the pack in scoring defense. Those are the categories that reflect a defense that helps teams win games. Who cares if we are top 5 in YPG (the measure they use) if we aren't getting key stops and getting the ball back for the offense, that's a hollow statistic.

Let's also not forget that his defense gave up 6 2nd half leads last year, including the Seattle game. Now I've been one of the biggest Gibbs/Saunders-late game play calling bashers, but other than the GB game, the offense didn't give the opposing team any points that flipped the scoreboard.

Most of the defensive players credited Blache for last year's improvement, citing his influence on simplifying schemes, letting players just play rather than think about the numerous stunts and blitzes Grilliams tried to implement. I think we're going to be fine defensively, hopefully increase turnovers and put some points on the board.

I would put GW's bunch in the overachieving category in his years here. Look at our line, although some solid veterans, we plugged people in and they got the job done. The one year that our D didn't play as well, i heard an NFL scout on the radio say that our group has never been that talented and it just caught up to us...we'd maxed out our mediocre talent. The next year we were back in the top 10. I think alot of people undervalue what GW did here. Don't get me wrong i'm hoping for a great D this year, but I'm a little concerned. Blache doesn't have top 10 D's in his coaching past. His defenses have been middle of the pack.