What's our greatest need now?

[vaoutlaws2006]

I am with others on this subject...i think we need more depth at cornerback...not sure what the Carlos Rogers' time table is...and possibly more depth at OLB...is Rocky gonna comeback fully healed? And lets all hope that EJ is healthy and the DE's should be good. I think someone else mentioned the drafting of TE in the second round with Calais Campbell still on the board...still baffling to me as well.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by vaoutlaws2006

I am with others on this subject...i think we need more depth at cornerback...not sure what the Carlos Rogers' time table is...and possibly more depth at OLB...is Rocky gonna comeback fully healed? And lets all hope that EJ is healthy and the DE's should be good. I think someone else mentioned the drafting of TE in the second round with Calais Campbell still on the board...still baffling to me as well.

I agree with you that our greatest need right now is a CB. If everyone is healthy and 100% we are fine, however Rogers' and Springs' health are major concerns. Springs will also probably not be back next year, based on cap numbers.

C. Campbell's combine numbers were terrible, and much worse than expected. He has "bust" written all over him. How many 6'7" 290 lb DEs that are worth anything fall to the mid-second round, when prior to the combine they were being touted as a 1st round pick.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I agree with you that our greatest need right now is a CB. If everyone is healthy and 100% we are fine, however Rogers' and Springs' health are major concerns. Springs will also probably not be back next year, based on cap numbers.

C. Campbell's combine numbers were terrible, and much worse than expected. He has "bust" written all over him. How many 6'7" 290 lb DEs that are worth anything fall to the mid-second round, when prior to the combine they were being touted as a 1st round pick.

Hmm, Michael Strahan comes to mind as a large defensive end that fell to the second round...

If we're going to miss, I wouldn't mind missing on a 6'7" 290 lb DE. I hate the combine, all these numbers are an attempt to quantify something that can't be quantified. Those combine drills are just that, drills, who cares that he sucks at the shuttle cone, or doesn't run a 4.5 40 yd dash, or only does 15 reps on the bench press. At 6'7" he's going to knock down passes, at 290 he can be effective against the run, and obviously he played well enough during the season to merit 1st round attention. And long term, we've got a Pro Bowl at TE already, would it have hurt to draft Campbell?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Hmm, Michael Strahan comes to mind as a large defensive end that fell to the second round...

If we're going to miss, I wouldn't mind missing on a 6'7" 290 lb DE. I hate the combine, all these numbers are an attempt to quantify something that can't be quantified. Those combine drills are just that, drills, who cares that he sucks at the shuttle cone, or doesn't run a 4.5 40 yd dash, or only does 15 reps on the bench press. At 6'7" he's going to knock down passes, at 290 he can be effective against the run, and obviously he played well enough during the season to merit 1st round attention. And long term, we've got a Pro Bowl at TE already, would it have hurt to draft Campbell?

Most times our 2 TE sets only force the D to account for 3 pass catching threats, with the addition of Davis, it makes it 4. While I wasn't the biggest fan of the pick (I wanted Groves) I can see the logic. It makes the offense much more dynamic, all of the 2nd round picks did. I'm not mad about the draft at all.

I do agree that another end would have been nice, but I don't think Campbell will be that much better than Daniels. I would have liked to have seen Groves be the pick, but I love Fred Davis's playmaking ability and I can't be mad about that pick.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Hmm, Michael Strahan comes to mind as a large defensive end that fell to the second round...

If we're going to miss, I wouldn't mind missing on a 6'7" 290 lb DE. I hate the combine, all these numbers are an attempt to quantify something that can't be quantified. Those combine drills are just that, drills, who cares that he sucks at the shuttle cone, or doesn't run a 4.5 40 yd dash, or only does 15 reps on the bench press. At 6'7" he's going to knock down passes, at 290 he can be effective against the run, and obviously he played well enough during the season to merit 1st round attention. And long term, we've got a Pro Bowl at TE already, would it have hurt to draft Campbell?

Hmm, I don't know Strahan's exact combine numbers, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that his bench press wasn't the WORST of all D-Lineman at the combine. I'm also pretty sure he ran better than a 5.0.

With Campbell's size and great sophomore season he was expected to be a top 5 pick in the NFL at some point. His junior season was below expectations and his work ethic is questionable. If your are a D-I DE at the U and you can only bench 8 reps at 225 (pre-combine Jan. 2008), something is wrong. You're either weak or lazy. I don't want to miss on a pick where there are serious warning signs for a bust. Campbell's D-Line coach from UofM is now on staff with the Skins. Campbell was available at a reasonable point in the draft and the Skins didn't take him, to me that speaks volumes.

The combine is not just "drills". It measures raw physical ability and that raw physical ability is extremely important in the NFL. Every NFL team seems to think it's pretty important, otherwise they wouldn't bother to attend.

At 6' 7", 290 Campbell doesn't have a low center of gravity, he's weak, with a questionable work ethic. At strong-side DE he would be getting BLOWN-UP at the point of attack. After that happened a couple of times how willing is he going to be to get back in there and "step it up", not very is my guess. I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Having two TEs that are receiving threats is very important and creates match-up issues for the opposing D.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Dude, I agree with what you say abour Calais Campbell but if we can keep Daniels for the 4-5 years (at a reasonable price) as a legitimate starter, I swear I will cut my bollocks off.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

Dude, I agree with what you say abour Calais Campbell but if we can keep Daniels for the 4-5 years (at a reasonable price) as a legitimate starter, I swear I will cut my bollocks off.

I was just throwing that out for emphasis on how much I don't want Campbell. You are absolutely right, IMO no way Daniels will be productive past 2009.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Hmm, I don't know Strahan's exact combine numbers, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that his bench press wasn't the WORST of all D-Lineman at the combine. I'm also pretty sure he ran better than a 5.0.

With Campbell's size and great sophomore season he was expected to be a top 5 pick in the NFL at some point. His junior season was below expectations and his work ethic is questionable. If your are a D-I DE at the U and you can only bench 8 reps at 225 (pre-combine Jan. 2008), something is wrong. You're either weak or lazy. I don't want to miss on a pick where there are serious warning signs for a bust. Campbell's D-Line coach from UofM is now on staff with the Skins. Campbell was available at a reasonable point in the draft and the Skins didn't take him, to me that speaks volumes.

The combine is not just "drills". It measures raw physical ability and that raw physical ability is extremely important in the NFL. Every NFL team seems to think it's pretty important, otherwise they wouldn't bother to attend.

At 6' 7", 290 Campbell doesn't have a low center of gravity, he's weak, with a questionable work ethic. At strong-side DE he would be getting BLOWN-UP at the point of attack. After that happened a couple of times how willing is he going to be to get back in there and "step it up", not very is my guess. I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Having two TEs that are receiving threats is very important and creates match-up issues for the opposing D.

Sorry for wanting us to address our d-line, somehow I got the crazy notion that a starting defensive end should get more than two sacks on the season. Based on that obviously flawed logic, I thought it would make sense to draft a replacement for the power lifter as opposed to someone who may catch 25 passes this year.

The combine is an attempt to quantify something that can't be explained. If it could be explained, why did the best quarterback in the NFL go in the 6th round? In the end, how many times someone can benchpress 185 lbs tells me how many times they can benchpress 185 lbs, nothing more and nothing less. If those measurables actually meant something then Trung Canidate would have run for 1500 yds and 15 scores for us instead of just becoming Matt Bowen's crash test dummy.

I like PDiddy, I really do, and I like that I'm the only one who calls Philip Daniels P Diddy. But I have this crazy dream, that one day we'll actually have a defensive end that is a force.

Now again, I love that we got weapons for Campbell. But at some point we are going to have to start drafting defensive ends before the 6th round, something we haven't done since 1997. Ten years and not one d-end has been "worthy" of being picked by us before round 6?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Sorry for wanting us to address our d-line, somehow I got the crazy notion that a starting defensive end should get more than two sacks on the season. Based on that obviously flawed logic, I thought it would make sense to draft a replacement for the power lifter as opposed to someone who may catch 25 passes this year.

I was hoping for Phillip Merling to be drafted by us in the first round, but the way the draft played out it made sense to do what the FO did. There were a couple of picks where a DL who made sense was picked within 1-3 picks before our pick. Merling before Thomas, and I believe either Sims or the DT from ARK was right before Kelly. My point is that Campbell has a high chance of being a bust and better to get someone that can potentially help at another position than someone who won't help at all.

The combine is an attempt to quantify something that can't be explained. If it could be explained, why did the best quarterback in the NFL go in the 6th round? In the end, how many times someone can benchpress 185 lbs tells me how many times they can benchpress 185 lbs, nothing more and nothing less. If those measurables actually meant something then Trung Canidate would have run for 1500 yds and 15 scores for us instead of just becoming Matt Bowen's crash test dummy.

I never said the combine is the only way to evaluate a player, film, statistical production, interviews, background checks all are pieces of the puzzle. The combine is an important piece. The combine quantifies raw physical ability. Because a guy like Brady slips to the 6th round or a player is a bust, doesn't mean we should throw out the combine. I was high on Campbell before the combine, but to put up terrible numbers to me is a huge red flag. On the DL, cone numbers and 40 times are not as important as strength. Bench press is a pretty good indicator of overall upper body strength and Campbell will not hold up in the NFL on the DL

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I was hoping for Phillip Merling to be drafted by us in the first round, but the way the draft played out it made sense to do what the FO did. There were a couple of picks where a DL who made sense was picked within 1-3 picks before our pick. Merling before Thomas, and I believe either Sims or the DT from ARK was right before Kelly. My point is that Campbell has a high chance of being a bust and better to get someone that can potentially help at another position than someone who won't help at all.

I was just hoping against hope for a defensive lineman. Will Campbell be a bust, maybe, I have no clue or interest since he's not a Skin and I know absolutely nothing about him.

As for what the FO did, they did it. It doesn't really make sense to me, it reminded me of when they signed Randle-El and Lloyd in the same summer. Yes, you guard against busts, but if you do your job scouting and evaluating then why the need to hedge your bets?

As was said before somewhere, Erasmus James may pan out. Hopefully. If he can stay healthy.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Sorry for wanting us to address our d-line, somehow I got the crazy notion that a starting defensive end should get more than two sacks on the season. Based on that obviously flawed logic, I thought it would make sense to draft a replacement for the power lifter as opposed to someone who may catch 25 passes this year.

The combine is an attempt to quantify something that can't be explained. If it could be explained, why did the best quarterback in the NFL go in the 6th round? In the end, how many times someone can benchpress 185 lbs tells me how many times they can benchpress 185 lbs, nothing more and nothing less. If those measurables actually meant something then Trung Canidate would have run for 1500 yds and 15 scores for us instead of just becoming Matt Bowen's crash test dummy.

I like PDiddy, I really do, and I like that I'm the only one who calls Philip Daniels P Diddy. But I have this crazy dream, that one day we'll actually have a defensive end that is a force.

Now again, I love that we got weapons for Campbell. But at some point we are going to have to start drafting defensive ends before the 6th round, something we haven't done since 1997. Ten years and not one d-end has been "worthy" of being picked by us before round 6?

addressing the d-line and blowing a high round pick for no reason are NOT the same thing. merling wasn't a safe pick either, but as a prospect he'd be a much better shot.

and combine times aren't a catch all, so pulling out that strawman is pretty silly. what about mike williams amazing combine? maybe the lions should have checked the red flags there.

and brady was taken in the 6th because he wasn't even the starter at his college... but carson palmer, eli manning, peyton manning, phillip rivers, ben roth, etc were all taken in the first, and they've done alright. just because the pats get lucky on one pick doesn't make the draft bullshit or change the fact that most low rounders don't make it while most high round picks have longer careers.

i don't see how turning a "campbell wasn't a very good prospect" argument got morphed into a "the draft is worthless deal" between one guy's post and your reply. if we took campbell, i would have been pretty pissed, as would quite a few others here that follow the draft pretty closely.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by That Guy

addressing the d-line and blowing a high round pick for no reason are NOT the same thing. merling wasn't a safe pick either, but as a prospect he'd be a much better shot.

and combine times aren't a catch all, so pulling out that strawman is pretty silly. what about mike williams amazing combine? maybe the lions should have checked the red flags there.

and brady was taken in the 6th because he wasn't even the starter at his college... but carson palmer, eli manning, peyton manning, phillip rivers, ben roth, etc were all taken in the first, and they've done alright. just because the pats get lucky on one pick doesn't make the draft bullshit or change the fact that most low rounders don't make it while most high round picks have longer careers.

i don't see how turning a "campbell wasn't a very good prospect" argument got morphed into a "the draft is worthless deal" between one guy's post and your reply. if we took campbell, i would have been pretty pissed, as would quite a few others here that follow the draft pretty closely.

I think what someone does in pads and in competition in the fall should count more than what they do in t-shirts and tights in April. I don't think the draft is bullshit, but rather a crapshoot.

Regardless of who the Skins picked, there are going to be people who are going to be pissed. I think taking two wideouts and a backup tight end is overkill. If those guys turn our team from also ran into genuine contender, great, I'm all for it, I'm a Skins fan after all. I don't see how taking a d-lineman in the second round is "blowing a draft pick" but taking a backup tight end is going to open up our offense. Fred Davis at best, at BEST, is the 5th option when he hits the field behind both wideouts, Cooley, and then Portis. I'm all for improving, but improving your 5th option on offense is not as important as getting someone who can sack the qb. I was using Campbell as an example, again not stumping for Campbell. There were plenty of DE's that we could have taken, all I asked was for one. Is that so wrong?