Bush's tax cuts don’t work; rich pay record high, below the median pay record low!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Not at all. I'm actually in favor of a flat percentage tax. But people that make the most money in this country should do more to support it. Most of the people that whine about the rich being over-taxed aren't anywhere close to that bracket, and they play more when the ultra-rich get savings.

Well what facts do you have that supports that the rich gets ultra savings? Anything I have ever seen is that they are a small % of the tax payers but pay a much greater % of all the taxes collected. Like the top 1% pays 40% of all the taxes collected. That does not sound like ultra savings to me. I don't whine about it and your right I'm not in their bracket but I do think they pay more than their share as it is and that article even pointed out that raising their taxes will not increase tax revenue as Obama thinks it will.

[Daseal]

Firstdown, I'm running out now so no time to back up the numbers I have heard with statistics, so Ill try to remember to get into that later. My thing is if one household brings in 10 million dollars a year, and lose 40% of that, it's a huge chunk. If another household brings in 100,000 a year and lose 40% of that, they're crippled.

Firstdown, would you be okay if everyone paid (just pulled a number out, statisticians would have to come up with an accurate number for this) 20% of their income at the end of the year to the government? I think doing it on a base percentage is the best way to go about it. Although I still don't know if the very poor could handle something that large.

I guess I just have no sympathy for someone paying more taxes that has all the money/luxuries they need. The top 1% won't come tumbling down because of their taxes. I'm more concerned about the folks that lose their homes because they can't pay property tax, or that have to choose between putting food on the table and paying the government.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Firstdown, I'm running out now so no time to back up the numbers I have heard with statistics, so Ill try to remember to get into that later. My thing is if one household brings in 10 million dollars a year, and lose 40% of that, it's a huge chunk. If another household brings in 100,000 a year and lose 40% of that, they're crippled.

Firstdown, would you be okay if everyone paid (just pulled a number out, statisticians would have to come up with an accurate number for this) 20% of their income at the end of the year to the government? I think doing it on a base percentage is the best way to go about it. Although I still don't know if the very poor could handle something that large.

I guess I just have no sympathy for someone paying more taxes that has all the money/luxuries they need. The top 1% won't come tumbling down because of their taxes. I'm more concerned about the folks that lose their homes because they can't pay property tax, or that have to choose between putting food on the table and paying the government.

Why are you saying $10 million? The top 1%, per this article, make above $388,000. There's a huge difference between that and $10 million

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Firstdown, I'm running out now so no time to back up the numbers I have heard with statistics, so Ill try to remember to get into that later. My thing is if one household brings in 10 million dollars a year, and lose 40% of that, it's a huge chunk. If another household brings in 100,000 a year and lose 40% of that, they're crippled.

Firstdown, would you be okay if everyone paid (just pulled a number out, statisticians would have to come up with an accurate number for this) 20% of their income at the end of the year to the government? I think doing it on a base percentage is the best way to go about it. Although I still don't know if the very poor could handle something that large.

I guess I just have no sympathy for someone paying more taxes that has all the money/luxuries they need. The top 1% won't come tumbling down because of their taxes. I'm more concerned about the folks that lose their homes because they can't pay property tax, or that have to choose between putting food on the table and paying the government.

I'm for anything better then what we have in place today. Either a flat tax or a consumer tax which I believe is around 22% and the lower income receives back tax credits. Neil Bortz (spelling) has a book out on the consumer tax which I have not read but have heard about. Your example of someone making $100,000 is not very good because they do not pay that much in taxes. I agree that yes the rich can afford to pay more (which they do) but that upper bracket starts with families with incomes around 350,000. While that is very well off its far from your example and they end up paying around $140,000 in taxes. So now they are bringing home 210,000 which just doe not seem right. Think they have to work almost 5 months just to pay their Federal Taxes and this does not even enclude state and other taxes. The main problem is Federal, State, and local goverment has become to big and way to waistful. We have plenty of money to meet the needs of the people we just need to cut out the waist in all three.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'm for anything better then what we have in place today. Either a flat tax or a consumer tax which I believe is around 22% and the lower income receives back tax credits. Neil Bortz (spelling) has a book out on the consumer tax which I have not read but have heard about.

Neal Boortz actually has two books out, the first is "The Fair Tax Book", the second is "The Fair Tax Answers the Critics" (I believe). I highly recommend you read them both. I read the first and haven't finished the second. Fair Tax is a great program. More info at: www.fairtax.org

A tax structure which fully funds the government, protects the poor, eliminates corporate and capital gains taxes, taxes earnings of the underground economy (drugs, other illegal activity, illegal immigrants) and most importantly takes a great deal of power away from the lobbyists on K St. and out of DC has my support.

[BleedBurgundy]

Why can't they just add more tiers to the current system, so that the "ultra-rich" (the ones Daseal is referring to...) are taxed heavily, but the people making "only" $350k don't give up a disproportionately large chunk of their income. It seems as if the official definitions of "rich" are far outdated.

[FRPLG]

I'd prefer if we just figured out how spend less money rather than raise taxes. I am pretty convinced we can get the same level of shitty services out of our gov't for 75% of our current collective tax burden is. Hell if done right we could probably get fair to middlin' services for 75% if we had competent politicans in charge of putting competent people in charge of our programs and got special interests out of the game.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I'd prefer if we just figured out how spend less money rather than raise taxes. I am pretty convinced we can get the same level of shitty services out of our gov't for 75% of our current collective tax burden is. Hell if done right we could probably get fair to middlin' services for 75% if we had competent politicans in charge of putting competent people in charge of our programs and got special interests out of the game.

Very well put !

[saden1]

Taxes are all psychological. You lot need to stop whining.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

Taxes are all psychological. You lot need to stop whining.

Huh? I am not sure what you mean. I think taxes are pretty real. I know when I get my paycheck every other Friday it says I got paid XXX but they only sent YYY to my bank because of taxes.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Huh? I am not sure what you mean. I think taxes are pretty real. I know when I get my paycheck every other Friday it says I got paid XXX but they only sent YYY to my bank because of taxes.

Perhaps you need a psychological stimulus to get you to see the light?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

Perhaps you need a psychological stimulus to get you to see the light?

Apparently so.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Taxes are all psychological. You lot need to stop whining.

Well it seems pretty real each month when I have to write a check to the IRS and then one to the state to pay my taxes. I think everyone should have to pay their own taxes each month and write a check the IRS. It hits home much harder when you have to take money allready in your checking account than to have your boss just taking it out of your check.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by saden1

Taxes are all psychological. You lot need to stop whining.

Looks like this is flying over people's heads.

I'll toss out a clue.

McCain’s head games on taxes - Ari Melber - Politico.com

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Looks like this is flying over people's heads.

I'll toss out a clue.

McCain’s head games on taxes - Ari Melber - Politico.com

Ugh. That's pretty damning.