We need competition for Suisham

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

come on now...there are plenty of players we could have cut first. How about when Daniels went down DAY 1, he CREATED a spot by his injury. Hmmm, should I go on? I'll keep going cause you guys clearly don't get it. How about the fact that we have 3 FB's on the roster right now (Sellers, Broughton, and Schmitt)? Yeah they are more important. How about Chris Horton? Or Kevin Huntley who will NEVER see the field? Or Patrick Ghee? There are 5 for instances.

You are seriously saying that 1- competition is bad, 2- Suisham has done well enough to deserve no competition, and 3- no one out there could possibly be better even though Suisham sucks on kickoffs, and can't hit from 50+! If any position needs competition it's kicker.

To assume there is no one to cut...well that's just the definition of close minded. Obviously by bringing in no competition the SKins feel they have the answer at kicker. Some of us feel otherwise. I hope suisham proves us wrong. Suisham is not Vinateiri, or a top 10 kicker, even a top 15 kicker, possibly not even a top 20-25 kicker. So why did he not deserve competition?

ps- just cause matty makes a comment, doesn't make it gold, you don't have to be a sheep and follow his every word. baaaaaah.

Let's look at his numbers since there seems to be too much subjective opinion being tossed around here for my taste. He was definitely in the top 15 in most categories. Let's take a look:

Points: 13th
%: 23rd
FG attempts: 5th
FG made: 5th
20/29: 11th (10/10)
30/39: 11th (8/10)
40/49: 3rd (10/13)
50+: 12th (1/2)


Link: ESPN - NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League

There's no baaaaah there, just numbers.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's look at his numbers since there seems to be too much subjective opinion being tossed around here for my taste. He was definitely in the top 15 in most categories. Let's take a look:

Points: 13th
%: 23rd
FG attempts: 5th
FG made: 5th
20/29: 11th (10/10)
30/39: 11th (8/10)
40/49: 3rd (10/13)
50+: 12th (1/2)


Link: ESPN - NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League

I guess leg strength doesn't matter?

By your standards Morton Anderson is a stud. 25 of 28, (89.3%), 24 of 24 (100%) PAT's. (47 yards was his long)
Suisham 29 of 35 (82.9%), 29 of 30 PAT's (96.7%). (50 was his long)

By those numbers, Anderson is better...maybe we should have invited him into camp? (note- sarcasm)

Who here would take Anderson over Suisham???? This is a case where stats don't prove everything. Let us not forget that missed kick vs Seattle, and he just missed an easy kick in his first preseason game.

Suisham was 18 for 20 inside 39. Only 6 players had more attempts from that length.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I guess leg strength doesn't matter?

By your standards Morton Anderson is a stud. 25 of 28, (89.3%), 24 of 24 (100%) PAT's. (47 yards was his long)
Suisham 29 of 35 (82.9%), 29 of 30 PAT's (96.7%). (50 was his long)

By those numbers, Anderson is better...maybe we should have invited him into camp? (note- sarcasm)

Who here would take Anderson over Suisham???? This is a case where stats don't prove everything. Let us not forget that missed kick vs Seattle, and he just missed an easy kick in his first preseason game.

Suisham was 18 for 20 inside 39. Only 6 players had more attempts from that length.

So now your argument is all about leg strength?

I guess you had to move on to something since I already showed you he's in the top 15 in most kicking categories.

Leg strength is overrated. By your standard Janikowski must be the best kicker in the history of the game.

This topic is now officially retarded.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So now your argument is all about leg strength?

I guess you had to move on to something since I already showed you he's in the top 15 in most kicking categories.

Leg strength is overrated. By your standard Janikowski must be the best kicker in the history of the game.

This topic is now officially retarded.

I think you're underrating leg strength. A kicker who can consistently kick the ball into the endzone makes a KO coverage team much better...

and a kicker who has range into the high 50's can make a huge difference over the course of a season... Obviously making kicks 40-49 separates the good kickers from the mediocre ones , and a kicker is supposed to make all of his FG's from 30-39.

And lastly, instead of bashing a thread/topic why not simply retire from it?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

I think you're underrating leg strength. A kicker who can consistently kick the ball into the endzone makes a KO coverage team much better...

and a kicker who has range into the high 50's can make a huge difference over the course of a season... Obviously making kicks 40-49 separates the good kickers from the mediocre ones , and a kicker is supposed to make all of his FG's from 30-39.

And lastly, instead of bashing a thread/topic why not simply retire from it?

Of course leg strength is important, but is it more important than accuracy?

Even though the thread has taken a seriously retarded turn, it's still fun to poke fun at it.

I mean c'mon... with an 80 man roster we're supposed to believe that we need to bring in some warm bodies off the street to compete for a kicking job that was solid a year ago? I don't see the logic. And I guess the Redskins agree it would be a waste of time since they haven't started up that mock competition yet. And since I don't know anything about kickers either I'm going to defer to their decision.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course leg strength is important, but is it more important than accuracy?

Accuracy is certainly more important. But again, but your standards, we need to go sign Morton Anderson. You can't ignore leg strength though...it ranks #2 importance in a kicker.

I mean c'mon... with an 80 man roster we're supposed to believe that we need to bring in some warm bodies off the street to compete for a kicking job that was solid a year ago? I don't see the logic.

Note my post about people we could have not invited, cause that is certainly what we did in other cases is just bring in warm bodies. We are gonna have to agree to disagree about "solid" from a year ago. I thought it was OK, but we could not rely on him from long distance, nor could we rely on him when it mattered most. That's important. To not bring in competition means we are completely 100% satisfied with our kicking game, I was not satisfied.

And I guess the Redskins agree it would be a waste of time since they haven't started up that mock competition yet. And since I don't know anything about kickers either I'm going to defer to their decision.

That's the best point you have made...however, you are assuming that the Skins have never made a poor decision. Let us not forget the plethera of poor kickers we have had over the years after Lohmiller.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Accuracy is certainly more important. But again, but your standards, we need to go sign Morton Anderson. You can't ignore leg strength though...it ranks #2 importance in a kicker.



Note my post about people we could have not invited, cause that is certainly what we did in other cases is just bring in warm bodies. We are gonna have to agree to disagree about "solid" from a year ago. I thought it was OK, but we could not rely on him from long distance, nor could we rely on him when it mattered most. That's important. To not bring in competition means we are completely 100% satisfied with our kicking game, I was not satisfied.



That's the best point you have made...however, you are assuming that the Skins have never made a poor decision. Let us not forget the plethera of poor kickers we have had over the years after Lohmiller.

Um no, I'm not assuming that at all. But as you said we're not the experts, right?

I do remember all the kickers we've gone through which is exactly my point why we should stick with Suisham to let him continue to develop. At the end of the day I see no need to have a worthless kicking competition for a guy who was 29/35 last year, the best season we've had from a kicker since Chip left.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So now your argument is all about leg strength?

My argument has, and always will be, that Suisham has not earned to not have competition for the job.

I guess you had to move on to something since I already showed you he's in the top 15 in most kicking categories.

That's funny, cause I showed you Morten Anderson you realized that your stats mean nothing? Way to stick to your guns. If your argument about the top 15 stats means anything, then you HAVE to admit that Anderson is a better kicker, and that's not going to happen. Nice big flaw in your argument there eh? Obviously Anderson is not, but the stats prove it...ouch...quite a conundrum we have here.
You also missed the point of there were only 6 kickers that had more attempts from 20-39, meaning OF COURSE Suisham will "appear" to have better numbers. When you're closer to the goal posts, then you usually have a tendancy to hit more FG's. I would have expected you to figure that out, but when you think that Suisham is a badass, then I guess you won't look at things objectively.

Leg strength is overrated. By your standard Janikowski must be the best kicker in the history of the game.

WOW...leg stregth is overrated?????? Might as well not do kickoffs at all then...might as well not make that a part of the game since you think it's overrated.
ps- follow along with other posts, I never once said I'd prefer Janikowski, but I did say I would welcome the competition. It wouldn't hurt.

This topic is now officially retarded.

Nope...just your weak argument.

For the record, here are the kickers I think are better or equal to Suisham in no particular order:
1- Gostkowski
2- Folk
3- Josh Brown
4- Gould
5- Crosby
6- Kris Brown
7- Scobee
8- Rackers
9- Bironas
10- Kaeding
11- Graham
12- Vinateiri
13- Hanson
14- Elam
15- Dawson
16- Lindell
17- Kasay
18- Jeff Reed
19- Nedney
20- Akers
21- Stover
22- Longwell

I'm not saying I'd take all of them over Suisham, but certainly most of them. And I certainly would have invited at least 7 others to camp to compete (had they not already had teams).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

My argument has, and always will be, that Suisham has not earned to not have competition for the job.



That's funny, cause I showed you Morten Anderson you realized that your stats mean nothing? Way to stick to your guns. If your argument about the top 15 stats means anything, then you HAVE to admit that Anderson is a better kicker, and that's not going to happen. Nice big flaw in your argument there eh? Obviously Anderson is not, but the stats prove it...ouch...quite a conundrum we have here.
You also missed the point of there were only 6 kickers that had more attempts from 20-39, meaning OF COURSE Suisham will "appear" to have better numbers. When you're closer to the goal posts, then you usually have a tendancy to hit more FG's. I would have expected you to figure that out, but when you think that Suisham is a badass, then I guess you won't look at things objectively.



WOW...leg stregth is overrated?????? Might as well not do kickoffs at all then...might as well not make that a part of the game since you think it's overrated.
ps- follow along with other posts, I never once said I'd prefer Janikowski, but I did say I would welcome the competition. It wouldn't hurt.



Nope...just your weak argument.

For the record, here are the kickers I think are better or equal to Suisham in no particular order:
1- Gostkowski
2- Folk
3- Josh Brown
4- Gould
5- Crosby
6- Kris Brown
7- Scobee
8- Rackers
9- Bironas
10- Kaeding
11- Graham
12- Vinateiri
13- Hanson
14- Elam
15- Dawson
16- Lindell
17- Kasay
18- Jeff Reed
19- Nedney
20- Akers
21- Stover
22- Longwell

I'm not saying I'd take all of them over Suisham, but certainly most of them. And I certainly would have invited at least 7 others to camp to compete (had they not already had teams).

Anderson is a better kicker than Suisham. Big deal.

Nice subjective list there. Who cares.

Besides, I thought you didn't know anything about kickers and you were deferring to the Redskins scouts?

So if there was one out there worth looking at why is he not in camp right now?

You're saying you're not an expert on kickers... but you're positive there needs to be a competition? Huh?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Anderson is a better kicker than Suisham. Big deal.

Are you serious? You really believe that????

Nice subjective list there.

Thanks.

Besides, I thought you didn't know anything about kickers and you were deferring to the Redskins scouts?

Here is my post since you are misunderstanding my point:
Seriously????? There was just a bunch of college kickers not drafted across the country, and there was a bunch last year too, and the year before etc....are you seriously saying that there are no kickers out there???

Last I checked, we are not experts on kickers...nor are we scouts...but last I checked, the Redskins employs alot of scouts...ask them where we could find a few. Anyone will work. No one is saying to get a hall of famer to compete, just competition. Competition has never been a bad thing...ever.

I am very knowledgable with all NFL players. I am not knowledgable, and have said on numerous occasions that I am not knowledgable, when it comes to college players. I was asked who we could bring in, I basically said there are tons of college kids we could have brought in. I don't follow college, I follow NFL.

So if there was one out there worth looking at why is he not in camp right now?

That's the million dollar question. Someone upstairs thought that Suisham is worthy of not having competition...just like someone upstairs thought that Spurrier was the next HOF coach, or that John Hall was our next kicker, or Eddie Murray, or Michael Husted, or Brett Conway were all good kickers.
When we win a super bowl, or even go deep in the playoffs, then the FO deserves for me, and everyone, not to second guess.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So now your argument is all about leg strength?

I guess you had to move on to something since I already showed you he's in the top 15 in most kicking categories.

Leg strength is overrated. By your standard Janikowski must be the best kicker in the history of the game.

This topic is now officially retarded.

Why would this topic be retarded, if during our playoff loss last season our kicker missed a pretty significant field goal?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Why would this topic be retarded, if during our playoff loss last season our kicker missed a pretty significant field goal?

Plenty of things went wrong in that game. The game did not boil down to a missed FG. For starters we shouldn't have even been kicking a FG, we should have punched in a TD. But that's a different topic entirely.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

There's no baaaaah there, just numbers.

Since you editted this in, I will make a separate comment on it.

Do you recall how he hit that 50 yarder? It was WITH the wind. His other 50 yard attempt was short. Where in your numbers does it show leg strength? Cause at this point, I think we can all safely assume you could care less about leg strength. Is that true? I think several of us would have been happy with a kicker just to do kickoffs at the league min. Someone who could reach the endzone.

Side note, football reference has him down as 0 attempts from 50. I wonder how often they are wrong?

Shaun Suisham Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Since you editted this in, I will make a separate comment on it.

Do you recall how he hit that 50 yarder? It was WITH the wind. His other 50 yard attempt was short. Where in your numbers does it show leg strength? Cause at this point, I think we can all safely assume you could care less about leg strength. Is that true? I think several of us would have been happy with a kicker just to do kickoffs at the league min. Someone who could reach the endzone.

Side note, football reference has him down as 0 attempts from 50. I wonder how often they are wrong?

Shaun Suisham Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

So you would prefer Sebastian Janikowski, then?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by jdlea

So you would prefer Sebastian Janikowski, then?

If we could have gotten him for league min solely to do kickoffs, then absolutely. He instantly would get us 10+ yards on every kick. But your comment proves a point...no one gave Janikowski competition in Oakland, and how did that turn out for him?

BTW- Janikowski gets a bad wrap because his FG% is always low. However, he made 6 50+ FG's last year, and had 11 attempts from 50+.
From 20-39 Suisham missed 2 FG's, Janikowski, only 1. Also, in Janikowski's 8 year career, he has missed only 11 fg's from 20-39. (that's an average of a little over 1 a year, 1.375) Any kicker should be able to hit FG's from 20-39, but the measure of a kicker is how good he is from long range. No one really wants a kicker that can't kick from 50. So to answer your question, if we brought in Janikowski to compete, then I would have been ecstatic about that. If Suisham beat him out in camp, then he deserves the job.