russia/ georgia

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

This might open up another can of worms, but don't you believe there is a fundamental right of individuals or groups of individuals to disassociate or secede from a union in which they feel their interests are no longer adequately served?

Ok, I'll bite. How do you think this would apply to the Civil War?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Ok, I'll bite. How do you think this would apply to the Civil War?

Yeah, this is a pretty wild tangent -- but down to the perceptual level, don't we as individuals have the right to disassociate with whomever we want? If I feel someone with whom I have a relationship isn't holding up their end of the bargain, I have the right to go elsewhere, do I not?

Same should go for nation-states. I don't know what the ramifications would have been for the south in the War of Northern Aggression (some call it the Civil War), but sooner or later, the two sides would have come to some sort of agreement and we'd have been one happy nation again.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Same should go for nation-states. I don't know what the ramifications would have been for the south in the War of Northern Aggression (some call it the Civil War), but sooner or later, the two sides would have come to some sort of agreement and we'd have been one happy nation again.

Wow, did you really just call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression? I have so many issues with that one; the least serious of which is that the South fired the first shot.

Also, are you saying that, if I so please, I should be able to declare my independence from the United States because I am dissatisfied with my government?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Wow, did you really just call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression? I have so many issues with that one; the least serious of which is that the South fired the first shot.

Also, are you saying that, if I so please, I should be able to declare my independence from the United States because I am dissatisfied with my government?

Absolutely. To both questions.

Not really into the game are you?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Absolutely. To both questions.

Do you honestly believe the Civil War was a mistake?

Also, there would be chaos if anyone could declare independence. Hawaii, those nuts in the Michigan militias, and a bunch of others would secede from the U.S. Pockets inside of states, cities, and neighborhoods would be independent countries. Needless to say, everything would be f'ed up.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Not really into the game are you?

Huh? I'm watching it, recording it, and commenting on it in the thread.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Do you honestly believe the Civil War was a mistake?

Also, there would be chaos if anyone could declare independence. Hawaii, those nuts in the Michigan militias, and a bunch of others would secede from the U.S. Pockets inside of states, cities, and neighborhoods would be independent countries. Needless to say, everything would be f'ed up.[QUOTE]

Yes, I'd call the Civil War a huge mistake. Other countries were able to phase out slavery without getting over 600,000 people killed.

As to secession, does a battered wife not have the right to 'secede' from an abusive husband? Do you have a problem with declaring independence from an abusive government? In colonial times, you'd have been a Tory I suppose, right?

Let's also consider the words of the 'hero of the union' Abraham Lincoln:

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable – a most sacred right – a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Yes, I'd call the Civil War a huge mistake. Other countries were able to phase out slavery without getting over 600,000 people killed.

So slavery should have been "phased out?" So, essentially, slavery should have been tolerated?

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

As to secession, does a battered wife not have the right to 'secede' from an abusive husband? Do you have a problem with declaring independence from an abusive government? In colonial times, you'd have been a Tory I suppose, right?

A battered wife? Really? I find it interesting that you say that slavery should have been tolerated and eventually phased out, and then say that the "Northern Government" was oppressive. My brain hurts.