Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm not a hard line pro lifer in the slightest, but do explain why this is a "batshit crazy" position given the implication from the religious right that Abortion is a form of Murder.

Given that implication, the next step in logic tells us that two moral wrongs would not make a right.

Oh that explains it. She's a pro-life Christian so it's OK to have vulgar and unreasonable religious beliefs?

Two wrongs? What is wrong is imposing your religious beliefs on others through legislative means.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

Oh that explains it. She's a pro-life Christian so it's OK to have vulgar and unreasonable religious beliefs?

Two wrongs? What is wrong is imposing your religious beliefs on others through legislative means.

What's vulgar and unreasonable to you could be simple common sense to someone else, and to argue that your position should be considered the higher authority in all disagreements is beyond ignorant, it would be arrogant and utterly pathetic.

Which is why, to avoid such a situation, I feel you would be wise to master the skill of arguing based on implications. If the implication is "abortion=murder" (which is something I don't even necessarily agree with, but a lot of very intelligent people do), then you can't act like the people who believe this are inherently wrong. To do so would be batshit crazy.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What's vulgar and unreasonable to you could be simple common sense to someone else, and to argue that your position should be considered the higher authority in all disagreements is beyond ignorant, it would be arrogant and utterly pathetic.

Which is why, to avoid such a situation, I feel you would be wise to master the skill of arguing based on implications. If the implication is "abortion=murder" (which is something I don't even necessarily agree with, but a lot of very intelligent people do), then you can't act like the people who believe this are inherently wrong. To do so would be batshit crazy.

I'm sharing my views. I know where pro-lifers stand and they know where I stand. What are you expecting from me? I'm I suppose to agree with them, understand their position, reason with them? I'm tired of their stupidness and I won't tolerate it. There's no middle ground when it comes to abortion in the case rape/incests. None whatsoever!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'm sharing my views. I know where pro-lifers stand and they know where I stand. What are you expecting from me? I'm I suppose to agree with them, understand their position, reason with them? I'm tired of their stupidness and I won't tolerate it. There's no middle ground when it comes to abortion in the case rape/incests. None whatsoever!

Yeah, those damn stupid, batshit crazy, pro-lifers, there's no reasoning with or understanding them. But we should negotiate unconditionally with a head of state that advocates "wiping another country off the face of the earth" (Ahmadenijad sp. / Israel). Iran's really a small country anyway and poses no real threats.....

I find it very strange that many (not all) on the far left in this country hate those on the right more than evil and brutal people who would commit mass genocide if they had the ability to do so. And it's normally those on the right who advocate a strong U.S. military which keeps people like Ahmadenijad in check.

I also wonder if you believe there's any middle ground on the partial birth abortion issue.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Yeah, those damn stupid, batshit crazy, pro-lifers, there's no reasoning with or understanding them. But we should negotiate unconditionally with a head of state that advocates "wiping another country off the face of the earth" (Ahmadenijad sp. / Israel). Iran's really a small country anyway and poses no real threats.....

I find it very strange that many (not all) on the far left in this country hate those on the right more than evil and brutal people who would commit mass genocide if they had the ability to do so. And it's normally those on the right who advocate a strong U.S. military which keeps people like Ahmadenijad in check.

I also wonder if you believe there's any middle ground on the partial birth abortion issue.

What are you saying, since I don't like them and I disagree with them I should be able to go out there and shoot them in the face? Bomb them to submission? What is there to negotiate? At least with respect to Iran there room for negotiation. With Iran I can negotiate with them by offering to help them build clean energy power plants in return for giving up nuclear aspiration. Hell, I can even offer to build and maintain their nuclear plants. What do I have to offer pro-lifers? Make abortion illegal in odd years?

My stance on partial birth abortion is very clear.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

At least with respect to Iran there room for negotiation. With Iran I can negotiate with them by offering to help them build clean energy power plants in return for giving up nuclear aspiration. Hell, I can even offer to build and maintain their nuclear plants.

What has our 'negotiation' gained so far? We give, they take. Soon they will have secured billions in Jizya, further funding a bloated elite ruling system and kept their poor marginalized and ignorant.

You cannot and should not negotiate with a Theocracy, it's clearly idiotic.

Cut them off from the rest of civilization. Their people will revolt due to ethnic divide and their current 'Hate the West, just ignore the Ayatollah behind the curtain' bullshit will bring them down.

Thread Hell yet?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

What are you saying, since I don't like them and I disagree with them I should be able to go out there and shoot them in the face? Bomb them to submission? What is there to negotiate? At least with respect to Iran there room for negotiation. With Iran I can negotiate with them by offering to help them build clean energy power plants in return for giving up nuclear aspiration. Hell, I can even offer to build and maintain their nuclear plants. What do I have to offer pro-lifers? Make abortion illegal in odd years?

My stance on partial birth abortion is very clear.

In at nutshell, it just doesn't make sense to me that many on the left show more outward disdain for pro-lifers than for the leadership of Iran.

You seemed to have a great deal of disdain in your original post for people who believe that abortion is murder and murder is wrong in any case. The intent of these people is to save lives. While you view them as intruding on a woman's freedom, they are not trying to kill people and are (in a vast majority of cases) non-violent. Your opinion of hard core pro-lifers is consistent with many people on the left.

Many on the left also share the opinion that we can reason with and negotiate with the leadership of Iran who has sponsored terrorism against the U.S. for decades, has said publicly that millions of people in Israel should be "wiped off the face of the earth", and that the U.S. is the great Satan. Clearly their intent is to take lives, they are very violent, and I don't see how there is any way we can negotiate in good faith with them.

(And to be clear, I'm NOT saying that the American left is advocating terrorism or for destroying Israel...or that we should be shooting hard-core pro-lifers in the face)

(We're actually not too far off in our opinions on the abortion issue itself)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'm sharing my views. I know where pro-lifers stand and they know where I stand. What are you expecting from me? I'm I suppose to agree with them, understand their position, reason with them? I'm tired of their stupidness and I won't tolerate it. There's no middle ground when it comes to abortion in the case rape/incests. None whatsoever!

Yeah, well, consider this the reason I responded to you in an issue I don't feel particularly strongly on.

What I'm not telling you is this: don't share your views. I do think your extreme liberal views contribute a viewpoint to the Parking Lot that improves the overall quality of the discussion.

What I am telling you is: don't be so goddamn arrogant on moral issues. The other side isn't always retarded. In fact, some of them can make rather intelligent arguments. If your only goal in stating your opinion is to try to irritate people who feel strongly the other way...then I really wish you would take it somewhere else. I don't understand the "I'm not going to take it anymore" crap. Where have you been wronged?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What's vulgar and unreasonable to you could be simple common sense to someone else, and to argue that your position should be considered the higher authority in all disagreements is beyond ignorant, it would be arrogant and utterly pathetic.

Which is why, to avoid such a situation, I feel you would be wise to master the skill of arguing based on implications. If the implication is "abortion=murder" (which is something I don't even necessarily agree with, but a lot of very intelligent people do), then you can't act like the people who believe this are inherently wrong. To do so would be batshit crazy.

Great post.