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[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Some things should not be motivated by profit.

It's profit that has motivated the great advances we have in medicine today.

Please tell me one technological or medical advance that has come from Government....you might find one or two rare instances, but innovation comes from the private sector and their motive is profit.

What great technological or medical innovations come from Communist countries, few or none because there is little to no profit motive to innovate.

EDIT: Improving patient care and service are also motivated by profit. If there is no profit motive, organizations will do the minimum to just get by.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

It's profit that has motivated the great advances we have in medicine today.

Please tell me one technological or medical advance that has come from Government....you might find one or two rare instances, but innovation comes from the private sector and their motive is profit.

What great technological or medical innovations come from Communist countries, few or none because there is little to no profit motive to innovate.

EDIT: Improving patient care and service are also motivated by profit. If there is no profit motive, organizations will do the minimum to just get by.

First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?

I pray their number one goal is saving lives not making a profit.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.

You're wrong -- profit is paramount, and no cost is too great if it means maximizing profits. It is the executive duty to the shareholders.

There have been several cases throughout history which exemplify this attitude.

Also, I'm not assuming the majority of issues are caused by profit-seekers. I just heard a lot of talk about how private medicine is better, because it's profit driven. Well, profit isn't the best motivator IMO.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?

Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.

It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.

You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).

But are you sure you understand what breaking even means? Breaking even means you cover all your costs and you have nothing left over. That means you manage to pay the ever rising malpractice premiums, you manage to pay for all the drugs and supplies which go higher and higher, you manage to pay all your employees and docs, and you bring in just enough revenue to cover all of this. Breaking even means you kept your operation running, cared for all your patients and gave them a good medical experience, and didn't have to lay anybody off. It's a very good thing (relatively speaking) for a hospital to break even these days.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).

If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?

Many are indeed closing for that exact reason. In Philadelphia, we recently lost Medical College of Pennsylvania, Parkview Medical Center, and Temple University Children's Medical Center just to name a few.

Others that aren't actually closing are shedding programs that lose money, most notably OB/GYN. There are now only 2 hospitals in North Philly that deliver babies. Five years ago, there were 11.

The hospitals still standing are the ones that either manage to break even (or better) or continue to believe that they can break even with some programmatic changes and key strategic investments (which is what I do).