Bill Maher's New Movie "Religulous"

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

We can agrue about politics, sports and things of that nature all day long and I won't get bent out of shape. I've steered clear of religious discussions here because they can get quite divisive. We lost skinsguy because of the religion bashing so I'm stepping up and saying my piece. By posting this video I am assuming you agree with the message. The video is pretty damn offensive and I absolutely disagree with the video's message.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs and not to be ridiculed for them. Whether they believe in God through whatever religion or don't believe at all. I haven't seen any folks who believe in religion throwing up bible study info or pushing their messages on anyone on this site.

Many of the "facts" and "scientific studies" this guy throws out are flat out wrong and have no back-up documentation. I would love to see the "scientific studies" he mentions. There are actually scientific studies that strongly suggest there is a healing power of prayer. Since we're calling people who believe in God delusional, I would suggest the makers of this video are self-righteous idiots. Their opinion is the opposite of a vast majority of the world. The majority of the world believes in God, whether through the Jewish, Christian (Mormons are Christians), or Muslim faiths. The people who created this have only a "bird's-eye" view of each religion. Many books have been written on the differences between the religions. But all three religions have the same basic belief that God exists. Mormons believe in Jesus the same way other Christians do and Jews and Muslims believe Jesus existed. There is historical evidence that many events in the bible did occur. Isn't it possible that God reaches out to people in different ways? Because evil people throughout history have perverted religion for power or personal gain does that make the message of religion wrong? Throughout the bible it speaks of false prophets who would lead many away from the teachings of God.

Look at it this way, one side or the other is correct, either God exists or he doesn't. If the video is correct and religious people are delusional then what have I lost by believing in God? I have gone through life in a state of happy delusion, tried to live as best I can, and tried to help others (good for society). When I die, it's over, I'm gone, because I'm just a mass of organic matter and chemical/electrical impulses, no after-life to worry about. But what if God exists? The religious people who lived good lives will join Him in heaven. The people that were exposed to the teachings of God, from whatever method, rejected Him and will simply cease to exist or suffer in hell for eternity. Even looking at this from a completely rational position (which is obviously hard for us delusional Christians) taking the chance that God doesn't exist is a huge risk.

Quite honestly these comments about society being better without God are completely wrong. If there was no God I would be living a totally differnet lifestyle, with complete disregard for anyone else and only my personal self-interest at heart. I wouldn't hesitate to steal, or kill as long as I wouldn't get caught and it was in my self-interest.

This is what always irks me.

Why would God punish those that have questioned his/her existence?

To me, if there is a God, my idea of him/her would be one that is forgiving and loving of every creature that is on this earth.

Obviously I have not seen Maher's movie yet, but going by his religious rants in the past I think this movie is going to focus on religious zealots who believe 110% that they are right, everyone else is wrong, the existence of God should not be questioned or debated, and everyone that doesn't believe is going to burn in hell. To me, extremist views like that should be called out into the open.

I've never understood why some people can't handle talking about topics like this. It boils down to this for me, neither side can prove the existence of a God beyond a reasonable doubt. So it just seems odd to me that there should be any sort of hardcore belief on either side. But if you choose to believe without any doubts at all, that's fine. Just don't push your beliefs on me and tell me I'm going to hell for not being on "the right team".

Personally I'm not sure what I believe. It's something I go back and forth with all the time. And honestly I hope I never come to a hardcore conclusion either way. I do have a problem with organized religion. I think it's something that's become quite corrupted over time and originally it was something that was used as a method to control the masses through fear and guilt. But some of the basic principles I do find interesting and of redeeming value and I do think you can be a spirtual person without being a supporter or follower of organized religion.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This is what always irks me.

Why would God punish those that have questioned his/her existence?

To me, if there is a God, my idea of him/her would be one that is forgiving and loving of every creature that is on this earth.

Obviously I have not seen Maher's movie yet, but going by his religious rants in the past I think this movie is going to focus on religious zealots who believe 110% that they are right, everyone else is wrong, the existence of God should not be questioned or debated, and everyone that doesn't believe is going to burn in hell. To me, extremist views like that should be called out into the open.

I've never understood why some people can't handle talking about topics like this. It boils down to this for me, neither side can prove the existence of a God beyond a reasonable doubt. So it just seems odd to me that there should be any sort of hardcore belief on either side. But if you choose to believe without any doubts at all, that's fine. Just don't push your beliefs on me and tell me I'm going to hell for not being on "the right team".

Personally I'm not sure what I believe. It's something I go back and forth with all the time. And honestly I hope I never come to a hardcore conclusion either way. I do have a problem with organized religion. I think it's something that's become quite corrupted over time and originally it was something that was used as a method to control the masses through fear and guilt. But some of the basic principles I do find interesting and of redeeming value and I do think you can be a spirtual person without being a supporter or follower of organized religion.

We are of almost the exact same mind on this. The only difference is that I don't necessarily think that a God would be forgiving and loving. I think supreme indifference is also a possibility.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

We are of almost the exact same mind on this. The only difference is that I don't necessarily think that a God would be forgiving and loving. I think supreme indifference is also a possibility.

That's the thing about religion, it's all opinion. How come some Muslims can take the Koran and stay peaceful and others end up extremists? Just like some people believe God and Christianity as all hellfire and brimstone and others think God is a stern yet merciful God.

But for real, are there any Jewish people on this site? I'm Black and I feel pulled more towards Judaism than anything else. I've learned some about Buddhism this year and I quite enjoy the philosophy of that. The fact that it's so peaceful and individually faith-based instead of collective is pretty intriguing for me.

The thing about Christians (SOME. NOT ALL) is that people get all caught up and want to impose what they think is right on others, when the Bible can be taken so many different ways. Some people wanna pick and choose what to follow and then point their finger at the people that don't follow it. "The Bible condemns sodomy". Yeah well. It also says you shouldn't mix fibers, so you better get naked real fast.

Everyone has the right to believe what they want and hold steadfastly to them. For someone to be a Christian and still accept people for who they are not what they do, who they sleep with at night, what the other person's religious beliefs are and to follow their God and not bat an eye to someone who may be the 180 to their beliefs, to me that's a good true Christian.

Anyone who automatically needs to throw Christianity in someones face (out of nowhere) and tell them their wrong because of xyz, is what my problem is with it and lately (especially in older generations.. 35-40+) is a huge problem for me.

Aristotle said the path to happiness is to be virtuous and if Christianity gives you that virtuosity, props to you. And if going binge drinking on Saturday nights with my college friends makes me virtuous at this point in my life, props to me.

Pretty much, I feel for each their own Aristotle also said that there is a middle that each one has to achieve to never be too extreme which I guess in the case of religion (though this wasn't addressed by then) the left extreme would be a religious extremist and right would be a full-blown atheist. Once you find that happy medium (which I feel is a individual spirituality) then one can continue to be truly virtuous in other spectrums of life. Unfortunately I don't think there are very many people to find that medium and again, that medium is all relative to the person. Someone might think they've found it when another person might think that they are way too extreme.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to each his own. Absolutely nothing wrong with religion. I'm down for organized religion. But there's no telling what is right or wrong or if there even is a right or wrong.. But I think it's all about respect. I can respect church going, God-fearing Christians but then when I see some Evangelists I can't help but cringe, but I guess that's cause they contradict my own beliefs and I assume they do the same thing when they come across someone like me. (or they just tell me I'm going straight to hell).

I just wish everyone could just respect everyone else.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

That's the thing about religion, it's all opinion. How come some Muslims can take the Koran and stay peaceful and others end up extremists? Just like some people believe God and Christianity as all hellfire and brimstone and others think God is a stern yet merciful God.

But for real, are there any Jewish people on this site? I'm Black and I feel pulled more towards Judaism than anything else. I've learned some about Buddhism this year and I quite enjoy the philosophy of that. The fact that it's so peaceful and individually faith-based instead of collective is pretty intriguing for me.

The thing about Christians (SOME. NOT ALL) is that people get all caught up and want to impose what they think is right on others, when the Bible can be taken so many different ways. Some people wanna pick and choose what to follow and then point their finger at the people that don't follow it. "The Bible condemns sodomy". Yeah well. It also says you shouldn't mix fibers, so you better get naked real fast.

Everyone has the right to believe what they want and hold steadfastly to them. For someone to be a Christian and still accept people for who they are not what they do, who they sleep with at night, what the other person's religious beliefs are and to follow their God and not bat an eye to someone who may be the 180 to their beliefs, to me that's a good true Christian.

Anyone who automatically needs to throw Christianity in someones face (out of nowhere) and tell them their wrong because of xyz, is what my problem is with it and lately (especially in older generations.. 35-40+) is a huge problem for me.

Aristotle said the path to happiness is to be virtuous and if Christianity gives you that virtuosity, props to you. And if going binge drinking on Saturday nights with my college friends makes me virtuous at this point in my life, props to me.

Pretty much, I feel for each their own Aristotle also said that there is a middle that each one has to achieve to never be too extreme which I guess in the case of religion (though this wasn't addressed by then) the left extreme would be a religious extremist and right would be a full-blown atheist. Once you find that happy medium (which I feel is a individual spirituality) then one can continue to be truly virtuous in other spectrums of life. Unfortunately I don't think there are very many people to find that medium and again, that medium is all relative to the person. Someone might think they've found it when another person might think that they are way too extreme.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to each his own. Absolutely nothing wrong with religion. I'm down for organized religion. But there's no telling what is right or wrong or if there even is a right or wrong.. But I think it's all about respect. I can respect church going, God-fearing Christians but then when I see some Evangelists I can't help but cringe, but I guess that's cause they contradict my own beliefs and I assume they do the same thing when they come across someone like me. (or they just tell me I'm going straight to hell).

I just wish everyone could just respect everyone else.

Agreed. I'm an athiest, but I don't feel the need to go pushing my beliefs on everyone else. I think if religion is helpful to anyone in their individual lives, then good for them. It's just that my views don't coincide with everyone else's. As a person who has a Scientologist mother (please spare me, I've already taken enough crap for it) and an undetermined (to this day I have never spoken about organized religion with my dad, and growing up my family was never one to go to church every Sunday, so I just assume he believes in God but doesn't really care about religion) father, the thing that really pushed me over the edge was everybody trying to push their religion on me, including my mother, my extended family (My mom's side is mainly Prothestant <sp?>, and my father's side is none, I think they all believe in God too but they aren't hardcore followers or bible pushers), and all of my friends that believe in God.

Basically I'm an athiest, but I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. And I can't stand people who push religion on others. I think the reason I don't believe in a God is just definitive proof, and if you feel that you need to enlighten me, please spare yourself the time and effort as I would probably respect you less.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Why would God punish those that have questioned his/her existence? To me, if there is a God, my idea of him/her would be one that is forgiving and loving of every creature that is on this earth.

I struggle with this idea too. I used to argue with a couple of folks who were very traditional "by the book" Christians about people who hadn't "accepted Christ" going to hell. The God I believe in wouldn't condemn someone to eternal damnation because they never had the chance to know Him. In the Catholic faith we believe in Baptism by Desire which addresses this; "Non-Christians who seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try to do His will as they know it through the dictates of conscience can also be saved without water baptism; they are said to desire it implicitly. (cf. Catechism, 1260)".

I certainly don't believe God would punish someone for questioning him, if he did Mother Theresa and many others (including me) would be in big trouble.

Obviously I have not seen Maher's movie yet, but going by his religious rants in the past I think this movie is going to focus on religious zealots who believe 110% that they are right, everyone else is wrong, the existence of God should not be questioned or debated, and everyone that doesn't believe is going to burn in hell. To me, extremist views like that should be called out into the open.

If the movie is what you describe then we agree 100%. But I think this movie will turn into a 90 minute commercial for atheism, demean regular people who believe, and not recognize the incalculable good works people do in the name of faith.

I've never understood why some people can't handle talking about topics like this. It boils down to this for me, neither side can prove the existence of a God beyond a reasonable doubt. So it just seems odd to me that there should be any sort of hardcore belief on either side. But if you choose to believe without any doubts at all, that's fine. Just don't push your beliefs on me and tell me I'm going to hell for not being on "the right team".

We agree here too. My experience has been that questioning my own faith, listening to different views, and reading/researching is a very good thing. One thing I think many religious folks forget sometimes is that God gave us free will and if He gives that to us, shouldn't we respect the free will of others?

Personally I'm not sure what I believe. It's something I go back and forth with all the time. And honestly I hope I never come to a hardcore conclusion either way. I do have a problem with organized religion. I think it's something that's become quite corrupted over time and originally it was something that was used as a method to control the masses through fear and guilt. But some of the basic principles I do find interesting and of redeeming value and I do think you can be a spirtual person without being a supporter or follower of organized religion.

Unfortunately if you believe in God, you must believe in Satan. Things evil people have done throughout history in the name of religion have kept many away from it altogether.

One of the customers I work with has an E-mail signature; "none of us is as smart as all of us". I think this applies to organized religion, when you worship as part of a group and work together for good things in the name of God, it's often remarkable what can be done that no single person could do alone.

I'm sorry we lost skinsguy over this, I think he overreacted, but religion is a very emotional thing. To be mocked for your beliefs (which I know you weren't doing, but he felt Maher's movie trailer was) isn't a good thing. The video Beem posted calling religious folks "delusional" goes to the opposite extreme IMO of pushing religion on others.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This is what always irks me.

Why would God punish those that have questioned his/her existence?

To me, if there is a God, my idea of him/her would be one that is forgiving and loving of every creature that is on this earth.

The modern day Catholic Church (as well as some other protestant denominations) teaches this message. Essentially, questioning your faith is not only reasonable, but expected, and only through questioning ones faith can they develop a strong enough faith to reach "the promised land".

Other denominations don't leave it to chance. They expect faith to be 100% unconditional. And I'm guessing these are the people who Bill Maher is mocking in his film.

But who are we (and more directly, what credentials does Maher have) to say that one of these is a totally irrational? What's to say the latter message isn't the one that is 100% correct?! I mean, there was sort of a whole reformation over this issue, so obviously people on both sides will think they are right.

For what it's worth, I'm Catholic, and believe the former.