Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[MTK]

We took a big step forward in electing an African American President, but it looks like we still have a long way to go in regard to sexuality and the ignorant thinking often involved with it. Sigh.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

We took a big step forward in electing an African American President, but it looks like we still have a long way to go in regard to sexuality and the ignorant thinking often involved with it. Sigh.

Apparently dissension from the majority on this board is the sole form of evidence necessary to be called ignorant.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Apparently dissension from the majority on this board is the sole form of evidence necessary to be called ignorant.

No, not really. Ignorance is what it is. And it's pretty obvious here.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, not really. Ignorance is what it is. And it's pretty obvious here.

Well, we disagree. I can do so respectfully, you've proven repeatedly during the past several months that you cannot. Must be nice to win every argument by proclaiming ignorance from on high.

Apparently the concept of right and wrong is alien to most of those responding to my post. No one seems to believe that anything short of violence or robbery is "wrong." To think that morality plays no part in the overall quality of a civilization is foolish and self-centered. To me, homosexuality is immoral and wrong on a fundamental nature, therefore I can't support any view point that promotes/legitimizes that lifestyle as a viable option. To do so would be to contribute to the continued degradation of our society. Like it or not, that's a legitimate viewpoint. You don't have to agree, but to insult me for stating my opinion in this thread seems a little hypocritical.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Apparently the concept of right and wrong is alien to most of those responding to my post. No one seems to believe that anything short of violence or robbery is "wrong." To think that morality plays no part in the overall quality of a civilization is foolish and self-centered. To me, homosexuality is immoral and wrong on a fundamental nature, therefore I can't support any view point that promotes/legitimizes that lifestyle as a viable option. To do so would be to contribute to the continued degradation of our society. Like it or not, that's a legitimate viewpoint.

See, I guess we have to define what we believe to be wrong. Yes, initiating violence and stealing from someone is wrong because it violates individuals rights. Any action which infringes upon a person's most basic fundamental rights -- their life, their liberty or their property -- can logically be proven to be wrong based upon the fact that just as we wouldn't want something like that happening to us, we shouldn't do it to someone else. In simple terms, it's the Golden Rule.

But consensual homosexual acts do not infringe upon those rights. So there would have to be more of an example of logical reasoning behind your position to back it up.

How exactly does homosexuality contribute to the 'degradation of our society'?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

See, I guess we have to define what we believe to be wrong. Yes, initiating violence and stealing from someone is wrong because it violates an individuals rights. Any action which infringes upon a person's most basic fundamental rights -- their life, their liberty or their property -- can logically be proven to be wrong based upon the fact that just as we wouldn't want something like that happening to us, we shouldn't do it to someone else. In simple terms, it's the Golden Rule.

But consensual homosexual acts do not infringe upon those rights. So there would have to be more of an example of logical reasoning behind your position to back it up.

How exactly does homosexuality contribute to the 'degradation of our society'?

Last comment on this and I'm done. I'm clearly swimming upstream in this discussion/feeding frenzy. Look at it like a logic problem: I believe homosexuality to be immoral. A society without morals is degraded. Therefore a society that sees what I believe to be immoral behavior as proper has been degraded in my view.

So, say the inevitable happens and the far left get what they want. "My Two Dads" is no longer a shitty tv show from the 80's and is now a common demographic. What's next? Where do you draw the line? Is everything great so long as no one tells anyone else what to do? Do we legalize all drugs, because it will reduce the crime inherent in the trade? Hell, there's data to support the argument. And prostitution? Why keep wasting tax payer dollars prosecuting such a victimless crime? We could regulate it, that would get the abusive pimps away from these maltreated women. We could even institute a "sex tax," and use the money to pay for the national debt. There's a ton of great arguments to support immoral choices. So lets support them all equally. And then we can have the USA our forefathers dreamed of, where the citizens are a mass of homosexuals, drug addicts and prostitutes. Just makes you want to raise some kids, right????

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Last comment on this and I'm done. I'm clearly swimming upstream in this discussion/feeding frenzy. Look at it like a logic problem: I believe homosexuality to be immoral. A society without morals is degraded. Therefore a society that sees what I believe to be immoral behavior as proper has been degraded in my view.

So, say the inevitable happens and the far left get what they want. "My Two Dads" is no longer a shitty tv show from the 80's and is now a common demographic. What's next? Where do you draw the line? Is everything great so long as no one tells anyone else what to do? Do we legalize all drugs, because it will reduce the crime inherent in the trade? Hell, there's data to support the argument. And prostitution? Why keep wasting tax payer dollars prosecuting such a victimless crime? We could regulate it, that would get the abusive pimps away from these maltreated women. We could even institute a "sex tax," and use the money to pay for the national debt. There's a ton of great arguments to support immoral choices. So lets support them all equally. And then we can have the USA our forefathers dreamed of, where the citizens are a mass of homosexuals, drug addicts and prostitutes. Just makes you want to raise some kids, right????

Except drugs and prostitution are illlegal. And can potentially hurt other people involved. Being gay hurts no one, including children. If you don't believe it, try reading some studies.

Our forefathers probably never expected black people to be riding in the same bus as white people. Or that I can drink or eat behind my white friends. I mean hell it was only 43 years ago black people could vote without being disenfranchised. I mean thank God for Abe Lincoln or I guess I'd be on a plantation somewhere responding, "Yes, Massa"

I mean it's incredibly disheartening to see people make these sort of negative sweeping generalizations. Painfully obviously made by someone who has never been impacted, close to anyone or probably met who's gay or a gay couple raising children.

Thankfully the proportion of people with this sort of thinking is at least even (instead of larger) than the people who are more open minded. I can only hope the proportion continues to shrink.

As for the religious right? Well they have their beliefs, and I can understand and at least respect it because they at least can throw some Bible lines at me. But... Anyway.. I digress...