Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I do not believe the union of a man/man or woman/woman should be held in the same esteem as that of a traditional man/woman relationship. That's where my defense of Prop 8 comes in. No one is talking about locking anyone up here, except you.

Look, if gay marriage is illegal based on a proposition passed by the people of California, then it is against the law, and anyone who tries to ignore the law and act in clear violation of it would be sent to jail. Otherwise, there's no point in passing laws.

I don't know what behaviors or "inherent attractions" take place in your bedroom/local zoo, nor do I want to, but to deny that the natural purpose of having two distinct sexes and the attraction that they possess is for anything other than procreation, well I have to disagree. Plenty of good things get perverted, sexuality is not immune.

So in your mind, sexual acts serve no other purpose than procreation?

Think of how many times you've had sex, and then count how many children you have. Isn't there some other reason human beings engage in sexual activity?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Look, if gay marriage is illegal based on a proposition passed by the people of California, then it is against the law, and anyone who tries to ignore the law and act in clear violation of it would be sent to jail. Otherwise, there's no point in passing laws.

I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but my understanding is that Proposition 8's purpose was to define marriage in an unambiguous way so as to prevent the liberal interpretation of the law. No one made anything "illegal." It's entirely possible that my understanding is less than perfect. SSG could no doubt explain it in clear terms.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So in your mind, sexual acts serve no other purpose than procreation?

Think of how many times you've had sex, and then count how many children you have. Isn't there some other reason human beings engage in sexual activity?

You are twisting my words, I guess for the purpose of conversation I'll believe it is an accident. I said the reason for there being two distinct sexes and their associated attraction to one another is procreation. There is no biological necessity associated with homosexuality that I know of, other than population reduction. (Maybe this could be the next green initiative, "Save the planet, Get Gay!)

[saden1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but my understanding is that Proposition 8's purpose was to define marriage in an unambiguous way so as to prevent the liberal interpretation of the law. No one made anything "illegal." It's entirely possible that my understanding is less than perfect. SSG could no doubt explain it in clear terms.



You are twisting my words, I guess for the purpose of conversation I'll believe it is an accident. I said the reason for there being two distinct sexes and their associated attraction to one another is procreation. There is no biological necessity associated with homosexuality that I know of, other than population reduction. (Maybe this could be the next green initiative, "Save the planet, Get Gay!)

What prop 8 did was make it illegal for the state government to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. It essentially denies them the legal benefits of marriage.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by saden1

What prop 8 did was make it illegal for the state government to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. It essentially denies them the legal benefits of marriage.

So no one gets thrown in jail? Hmmmmm, could've sworn I said something to that effect.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

So no one gets thrown in jail? Hmmmmm, could've sworn I said something to that effect.

Do you, or do you not believe gay marriage should be illegal?

If you think it should be legal, then I officially take back my statement.

But if you do think it should be illegal, then you have to be prepared to support the idea that people should be thrown in jail if they disobey the law. Otherwise, what's the purpose of laws?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Do you, or do you not believe gay marriage should be illegal?

If you think it should be legal, then I officially take back my statement.

But if you do think it should be illegal, then you have to be prepared to support the idea that people should be thrown in jail if they disobey the law. Otherwise, what's the purpose of laws?

In the scenario you present, the ones who would be breaking the law are those that are issuing the marriage licenses, i.e. government officials who are making a clear choice to disobey the laws they are sworn to obey. So in that instance, the officials would deserve some sort of punishment, what sort I have no desire to quantify.

Originally Posted by saden1

Oh, people can go jail. If a court clerk issues a marriage license to a gay couple the to jail.

see above.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

So no one gets thrown in jail? Hmmmmm, could've sworn I said something to that effect.

Oh, people can go jail. If a court clerk issues a marriage license to a gay couple they to jail.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Look, if gay marriage is illegal based on a proposition passed by the people of California, then it is against the law, and anyone who tries to ignore the law and act in clear violation of it would be sent to jail. Otherwise, there's no point in passing laws.




So in your mind, sexual acts serve no other purpose than procreation?

Think of how many times you've had sex, and then count how many children you have. Isn't there some other reason human beings engage in sexual activity?

Beemn, I can't figure out where you stand on this. You seem to be against it, but seem to enjoy picking at other people's views? I dunno.

Was just curious.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Beemn, I can't figure out where you stand on this. You seem to be against it, but seem to enjoy picking at other people's views? I dunno.

Was just curious.

I'm for personal freedom and individual rights. If someone finds love or pleasure in the arms of another person who happens to be of the same sex, it should be absolutely, perfectly legal. Same for gay marriage.

And yes, I do enjoy unravelling the logic of those with whom I disagree.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm for personal freedom and individual rights. If someone finds love or pleasure in the arms of another person who happens to be of the same sex, it should be absolutely, perfectly legal. Same for gay marriage.

And yes, I do enjoy unravelling the logic of those with whom I disagree.

amen, live and let live

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

amen, live and let live

I'm always perplexed when ballot measures like these (and for marijuana decriminalization) seem to fail. Especially in California.

David Frum, a conservative writer for National Review said that all you have to do is look at the demographics for those who find the gay issue so important -- it's overwhelmingly over the age of 40.

One day, the tide will turn.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm always perplexed when ballot measures like these (and for marijuana decriminalization) seem to fail. Especially in California.

David Frum, a conservative writer for National Review said that all you have to do is look at the demographics for those who find the gay issue so important -- it's overwhelmingly over the age of 40.

One day, the tide will turn.

Here's hoping, Beemn.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm always perplexed when ballot measures like these (and for marijuana decriminalization) seem to fail. Especially in California.

David Frum, a conservative writer for National Review said that all you have to do is look at the demographics for those who find the gay issue so important -- it's overwhelmingly over the age of 40.

One day, the tide will turn.

Yes, I believe in our lifetime it will.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm for personal freedom and individual rights. If someone finds love or pleasure in the arms of another person who happens to be of the same sex, it should be absolutely, perfectly legal. Same for gay marriage.

And yes, I do enjoy unravelling the logic of those with whom I disagree.

I think people are getting this mixed up some. Its not illegal for gays to get married by a church and have the church regonize them as married. Its that the state will not recognize them as legally married. Myself I really do not understand the issues enough to have a strong opinion either way. I have a gay family member and several gay friend and I have never heard them talk about this issue. Maybe I'll ask next time I have a chance to talk to one of them.

[70Chip]

I think you have to draw a line somewhere and this seems as good a place as any. After this it will be plural marriage, then it will be lowering the age of consent, then it will be prostitution, then it will be animals, and on and on. We will never reach a point where there won't be someone who wants their sexual proclivity to be formalized in some way by law, no matter how creepy.