What's Wrong with the Redskins?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

As Zorn said when asked about the number of offenses JC has had to learn [over the last 7 years]. "get over it". You win games as a QB, score points - with your arm, or you're on another team. At the end of next year JC's contract is up. Either he's the one or he's not.

I agree that either JC is "the one or he's not," but I otherwise disagree with your post. You absolutely have to consider what JC is working with. You can't evaluate a QB without looking at the scheme, the receivers, the backs, and the line. Players' careers are made or broken by their surroundings (e.g., compare Randy Moss in 2006 and 2007).

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I agree that either JC is "the one or he's not," but I otherwise disagree with your post. You absolutely have to consider what JC is working with. You can't evaluate a QB without looking at the scheme, the receivers, the backs, and the line. Players' careers are made or broken by their surroundings (e.g., compare Randy Moss in 2006 and 2007).

I agree the OL is old and deteriorating. I agree our WR drop balls. I agree when Portis is having a good game, JC can do well. Jason has had good games and under top conditions will be a good QB.

HOWEVER, why can't he ever connect on the long balls? Why have three sets of OC (including a HOF coach, #1 OC and a top notch QB coach) had such limited scoring since Jason started? Why do we have a MPV RB, Clinton Portis, but we score so few points? There's much blame to go around, but the "everyone but Jason" arguments just don't seem right with me.

As I've said - he's earned the chance to start this entire season. Probably well into next year. But eventually we will have to see if [as happened when Collins won 5 games last year] someone else can do it better with the offensive talent we have; if the offense doesn't score more points.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

I agree the OL is old and deteriorating. I agree our WR drop balls. I agree when Portis is having a good game, JC can do well. Jason has had good games and under top conditions will be a good QB.

HOWEVER, why can't he ever connect on the long balls? Why have three sets of OC (including a HOF coach, #1 OC and a top notch QB coach) had such limited scoring since Jason started? Why do we have a MPV RB, Clinton Portis, but we score so few points? There's much blame to go around, but the "everyone but Jason" arguments just don't seem right with me.

As I've said - he's earned the chance to start this entire season. Probably well into next year. But eventually we will have to see if [as happened when Collins won 5 games last year] someone else can do it better with the offensive talent we have; if the offense doesn't score more points.

I don't absolve Jason of all blame. Jason needs to make his reads and get rid of the ball quicker and improve his accuracy on the short to medium throws. But, on the whole, Jason is a good QB and I believe most of our problems on offense lie with the O-line.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I don't absolve Jason of all blame. Jason needs to make his reads and get rid of the ball quicker and improve his accuracy on the short to medium throws. But, on the whole, Jason is a good QB and I believe most of our problems on offense lie with the O-line.

Agree 100%. OL is hurting his reads and rushing him. I really question his long-pass ability - far below the NFL average this year and before - when he has time and the WR was open [like today with ARE].

He's definitely good. Question is whether that's good enough for us to be an elite team.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I don't absolve Jason of all blame. Jason needs to make his reads and get rid of the ball quicker and improve his accuracy on the short to medium throws. But, on the whole, Jason is a good QB and I believe most of our problems on offense lie with the O-line.

Eli's receivers were making plays for him. Jason was getting his balls dropped. The only thing that pissed me off with him was the clear touchdown he had to Moss if he didn't under-throw the ball. Jason didn't let us down this game, the play caller did with his hunker-down-don't-lose-the-game-hope-we-win bullshit.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by saden1

Eli's receivers were making plays for him. Jason was getting his balls dropped. The only thing that pissed me off with him was the clear touchdown he had to Moss if he didn't under-throw the ball. Jason didn't let us down this game, the play caller did with his hunker-down-don't-lose-the-game-hope-we-win bullshit.

You're blaming Zorn? A rookie coach with a better start than any Redskins HC including Joe Gibbs?

The guy inherited this team. He didn't even get to pick all his coaches. He didn't get to pick all the draft players. I don't agree with all his calls but the mutiple drops, lousy passes, penalties, and poor play against a powerhouse team are not all his fault.

I suppose where the ball is placed for the WR has nothing to do with the drops? Tell me that Zorn told JC to throw a ball into triple coverage? Come on. Zorn has got this team to play above itself.

As others have said, JC QB rating is dropping to his NFL - '75'ish average. I suppose Zorn, Gibbs and Saunders were exclusively responsible for that over the last 4 years.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

I suppose where the ball is placed for the WR has nothing to do with the drops? Tell me that Zorn told JC to throw a ball into triple coverage? Come on. Zorn has got this team to play above itself.

Zorn did indeed inherit a team with some issues (e.g., aging O-line, small wideouts), but he also inherited a team coming off 2 playoff appearances in 3 years. So, it's not like Zorn took over the Detroit Lions. On balance, Zorn has done a good job with the Redskins. I have a few reservations about the playcalling, but he's done just fine.

As for your potshots at Campbell, please review the tape on Campbell's three throws to Kelly, Thrash and ARE that were dropped on 3rd down and killed 1/4 of our 12 drives.

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Zorn did indeed inherit a team with some issues (e.g., aging O-line, small wideouts), but he also inherited a team coming off 2 playoff appearances in 3 years. So, it's not like Zorn took over the Detroit Lions. On balance, Zorn has done a good job with the Redskins. I have a few reservations about the playcalling, but he's done just fine.

As for your potshots at Campbell, please review the tape on Campbell's three throws to Kelly, Thrash and ARE that were dropped on 3rd down and killed 1/4 of our 12 drives.

I agree; the wide receiver corps let Campbell down today. We have a lingering problem at WR, with no No. 2. I hope Kelly or Thomas emerges next season as a true No. 2 receiver to complement Moss.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Zorn did indeed inherit a team with some issues (e.g., aging O-line, small wideouts), but he also inherited a team coming off 2 playoff appearances in 3 years. So, it's not like Zorn took over the Detroit Lions. On balance, Zorn has done a good job with the Redskins. I have a few reservations about the playcalling, but he's done just fine.

As for your potshots at Campbell, please review the tape on Campbell's three throws to Kelly, Thrash and ARE that were dropped on 3rd down and killed 1/4 of our 12 drives.

Last years playoff run was with a different QB.

If calling JC a 'good QB' is taking potshots, then I'm guilty. Check my last 20 posts in this thread for how many times I've said those exact words almost every post.

Last point - Gibbs II was four years long with a .45 win/loss rate. That's the team Zorn took over.

Sure there were dropped balls - the WR are guilty every game. I guess they're the only ones to blame for those.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

You're blaming Zorn? A rookie coach with a better start than any Redskins HC including Joe Gibbs?

The guy inherited this team. He didn't even get to pick all his coaches. He didn't get to pick all the draft players. I don't agree with all his calls but the mutiple drops, lousy passes, penalties, and poor play against a powerhouse team are not all his fault.

I suppose where the ball is placed for the WR has nothing to do with the drops? Tell me that Zorn told JC to throw a ball into triple coverage? Come on. Zorn has got this team to play above itself.

As others have said, JC QB rating is dropping to his NFL - '75'ish average. I suppose Zorn, Gibbs and Saunders were exclusively responsible for that over the last 4 years.

I know Sherlock Holmes and you sir are no Sherlock Holmes.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by saden1

I know Sherlock Holmes and you sir are no Sherlock Holmes.

And what was wrong with what I said?

I NEVER claimed I was Sherlock Holmes (that I remember). I'm just an old fighter pilot with too much time on his hands.