D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

You make some good points and give me some hope. But, the fact we couldn't get up for and hang with a 1-11-1 team says something is broken beyond repair. As for Campbell, his QB rating in the second half is much lower than in the first half. That trend cannot occur next year. He should be getting better.

Don't think that M. Lewis isn't on the hot seat and coaching for his job right now, also the Bengals players are playing for contracts too. They were at home and we turned the ball over.

JC's QB rating will be lower in the second half because the OL played poorly in the second half, not because of anything he's done wrong.

[CRedskinsRule]

I still think Zorn deserves another year but one issue I have: we have had 9 1st quarters out of 14 where we got ZERO point compare that to our opponents first drive (seemed like they got a TD every time but I don't know their stats)
That definitely seems like motivation issues. Maybe to much medium?

[skinsnut]

I said yes.

This team has essentially played 2 good games...both in the first month.
We struggled but won after that, then struggled and lost by a score after that.
Then we started blowing critical NFC East games and we got dominated a few times on national TV...can it get worse....sure....at least we'll never get beat by the Bengals......
OOPS.

This team has been progressively getting worse since the first quarter was over.
Why were we good early on?
1 of 2 possibilities.
1...new playcalling, no one had film on us.
2...perhaps our team had Gibbs guts carrying over from last year.

Bottom line, this team isn't incredibly talented.
Yes we have Portis, Moss and Fletcher but thats it.
The only way to make a team with average talent win is by exceptional coaching.
I don't see that right now....therefore, Zorn may be in trouble...expecially if we don't win another game which is a good possibility.

I really think he'll get another season, if for no other reason, so Danny can keep the haters down.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I said yes.

This team has essentially played 2 good games...both in the first month.
We struggled but won after that, then struggled and lost by a score after that.
Then we started blowing critical NFC East games and we got dominated a few times on national TV...can it get worse....sure....at least we'll never get beat by the Bengals......
OOPS.

This team has been progressively getting worse since the first quarter was over.
Why were we good early on?
1 of 2 possibilities.
1...new playcalling, no one had film on us.
2...perhaps our team had Gibbs guts carrying over from last year.

Bottom line, this team isn't incredibly talented.
Yes we have Portis, Moss and Fletcher but thats it.
The only way to make a team with average talent win is by exceptional coaching.
I don't see that right now....therefore, Zorn may be in trouble...expecially if we don't win another game which is a good possibility.

I really think he'll get another season, if for no other reason, so Danny can keep the haters down.

"Gibbs Guts" -- I like that.

How about possibility #3: The most crucial part of any offense, the O-line, had peaked, began to get hit with injuries to aging players whose skills were starting to diminish anyway, and due to front office neglect, they had nobody waiting in the wings to step up.

You still count Santana Moss as 'incredible talent'? Honestly I don't know what there is to see about him anymore.

It's funny that his pathetic endzone celebration was shining shoes. That's about all he's been good for since 2005.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

"Gibbs Guts" -- I like that.

How about possibility #3: The most crucial part of any offense, the O-line, had peaked, began to get hit with injuries to aging players whose skills were starting to diminish anyway, and due to front office neglect, they had nobody waiting in the wings to step up.

You still count Santana Moss as 'incredible talent'? Honestly I don't know what there is to see about him anymore.

It's funny that his pathetic endzone celebration was shining shoes. That's about all he's been good for since 2005.

what was up with the shoe thing? I could see doing that on a wining team that was killing a loser team like Cincy but we were down 17 points and sucking wind, Moss is embarrassing.

[mredskins]

I think Zorn might have worked since he inherited a decent team at the time. Now to ask this virgin head couch to rebuild a whole franchise, I think you are asking too much of him. Here is where you need a Cower type person who couches and does front office. Vinny needs to go. IF we are going to change gears do it right after the season give Cower or who ever enough time to evaluate the draft and FA.

[CRedskinsRule]

I don't think quit fits. They just start veerrryyy slow every game, and that lets every team stay in it. And never gives us a chance to put a game away.
I haven't got any clue what the issue is, but I think "quit" is the same as last weeks' "heart". I would love someone to be able to give an inside view of the Skins, without the hate of JLC or the blind adoration of Larry Michaels.

[diehardskin2982]

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out. I'm suprised we haven't heard about snyder putting a bunch a vanilla ice cream in his office or something because he is so perdictable. Zorn was a great pick up for ofensive coordinator, but they should of kept G williams as head coach and promoted Blanche to d coordinator.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out. I'm suprised we haven't heard about snyder putting a bunch a vanilla ice cream in his office or something because he is so perdictable. Zorn was a great pick up for ofensive coordinator, but they should of kept G williams as head coach and promoted Blanche to d coordinator.

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

Beat me to it. Doesn't it suck when some peoples hindsight isn't 20/20?

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How does this make any sense? Unless the argument is that Zorn's responsibilities as head coach prevent him from effectively running the offense, isn't it safe to assume that our offense would be kind of similar with Williams as coach and Zorn as OC? I can't imagine that Williams would have been that involved with the offensive side of the ball. I kind of think it's more likely that, should the Skins have followed your advice last year, we'd be debating who the next OC should be right now.

Hindsight is 20/20. Lets look at what Zorn has done well, he helped Campbell get better (at first), he went 6-2. Zorn right now in my opinion is wearing too many hats as Headcoach. He is a First Time headcoach, and a first time playcaller. Maybe it would have been better to have Blanche as Headcoach and Zorn as O-coordinator and QB Coach. Or maybe Zorn should let Sherman Smith do his job and call the plays. My problem with Zorn is that he seems to lack leadership, he calls out players and blames others for his mistakes.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

He has loss the offense for sure. That happened when Portis spoke out.

If Zorn gets fired, it will not be due to final record.
It will because of leadership ability.
The fact that Zorn did not give Portis a major smackdown screams of a leadership problem.....could anyone imagine that happening with Parcells?

Why do you all think Dallas is a mess?
You got it....Head Coaching leadership issues.

Its been several years of HC leadership respect building since Gibbs took over from Spurrier. This Portis fiasco was the first test showing who is really in control.....unfortunately, it is the players.
You can't win with that setup....even if none of your players are jerks like we are blessed to have.

[skinsnut]

I will throw out a crazy idea...
If you were Snyder, what would you do with the HEAD COACH situation at the end of the year.

I would leave it alone....

Otherwise, I'd hire an experience Offensive Coordinator with the intention of promoting him to head coach within a year if he succeeded.

After all, Zorn is mostly responsible for the passing game which has been lame...If he has failed as a head coach, he has certainly failed at his offensive coordinator job. The reason Danny kept everything else the same was for continuity ie., lack of confidence in a rookie who has never called a play.

Oh yeah, his only other responsibility is to inspire the team to play well.
I feel that is where he has failed the most.

I hope this is just a learning experience and that he freaks out like most head coaches would...we'll just have to see...unfortunately, this should have happened during the Dallas game a month ago.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

I will throw out a crazy idea...
If you were Snyder, what would you do with the HEAD COACH situation at the end of the year.

I would leave it alone....

Otherwise, I'd hire an experience Offensive Coordinator with the intention of promoting him to head coach within a year if he succeeded.

After all, Zorn is mostly responsible for the passing game which has been lame...If he has failed as a head coach, he has certainly failed at his offensive coordinator job. The reason Danny kept everything else the same was for continuity ie., lack of confidence in a rookie who has never called a play.

Oh yeah, his only other responsibility is to inspire the team to play well.
I feel that is where he has failed the most.

I hope this is just a learning experience and that he freaks out like most head coaches would...we'll just have to see...unfortunately, this should have happened during the Dallas game a month ago.

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But he hasn't failed in bringing along Jason Campbell. Most of the reason his schemes have been ineffective, is that Devin Thomas has seen 30+ targets, and he generally doesn't know what to do. That's hurt the passing game.

Zorn's schemes with last years' offensive personnel would actually have been likely more effective than Saunders' schemes. Not a whole lot more, generally scheme isn't worth that much. This team badly needs a Keenan McCardell.

But Campbell is better than last year, which is what really, really needed to get out of this year. Those saying he's regressed probably should go look at a stat sheet or something.

Tripp,
You make some good point about Campbell being better, but the problem is the rest of the team is worse...in almost every category.
Special teams, defense, particularly schemes the last 2 games early on.
D line, O line, penalties....yes Portis has done well, but that has more to do with his offseason program and individual achievement.. what I mean is his runs are not due to gaping holes or anything. Last years holes were far better.

So...if Zorn has made moderate progress with a QB...isn't he really a QB coach with a Head Coach clipboard?

What he needs to be is a HEAD COACH, with QB coaching skills on the side, not vice versa.