If You Ran the Redskins...

[30gut]

Hire some coaches that know the WCO.


David Culley
Wide Receivers Coach


A veteran of 30 years in the coaching profession, David Culley is in his 10th season as the Eagles wide receivers coach.

Under Culley's watch in 2007, Kevin Curtis became the 2nd Eagles receiver in the Andy Reid era to eclipse the 1,000-yard receiving mark (1,110), joining Terrell Owens in 2004. Additionally, Curtis, WR Reggie Brown (780), and RB Brian Westbrook (771) became the first trio in team history to rack up over 750 yards receiving in the same season. Brown finished with a career-high 61 receptions a year ago after setting the team's rookie record with 43 catches in 2005.

Philadelphia Eagles
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Pat Shurmur
Quarterbacks Coach


One of the rising stars in the NFL's coaching ranks, Pat Shurmur is in his seventh season as the Eagles quarterbacks coach and his tenth as a member of Andy Reid's staff.

In this role, the 43-year-old Shurmur has helped Donovan McNabb earn three of his five Pro Bowl berths. In 2004, McNabb turned in the most productive season of his career, establishing franchise records in QB rating (104.7), completion pct. (64.0), and passing yards (3,875). In fact, McNabb became the first quarterback in NFL history to have a season with 30-plus TD passes (31) and fewer than 10 interceptions (8).

""Pat's a very good football coach and teacher,"" said head coach Andy Reid. ""He's received a lot of attention from other teams to be a coordinator [in the last two years] that's going to happen for him.""

In 2002, Shurmur earned praise for his poise displayed after McNabb and Koy Detmer went down with injuries late in the season. Down to little-used A.J. Feeley, who had not started since his junior year at Oregon, the Eagles went 4-1 down the stretch. Feeley, a 5th-round draft choice in 2001, was traded to Miami in 2004 for a 2nd-round pick in the 2005 NFL Draft.

Philadelphia Eagles

[BigHairedAristocrat]

IF we keep Zorn (and it seems we will right now), this is what I would do:

1. Fire Cerrato. Give Scott Pioli whatever he wants to come here.

2. Give Zorn an experienced WCO Offensive coordinator and have the OC call plays.

3. Attempt to trade:
-Chris Horton (Low 1st/High 2nd rounder - No, i'm not crazy, see below*)
-Jason Campbell (2nd/3rd rounder-he doesnt fit the WCO, plain and simple)
-Jason Taylor (4th rounder)
-Randel El (4th-6th rounder)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (5th rounder - sorry, but we need a short
yardage back. Betts or Cartwright need to go to make room.)

4. Among starters, i would CUT:
-Griff
-Washington
-Taylor (if unable to trade)
-ARE (if unable to trade)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (if unable to trade)
-Rabach
-Thrash (I know, not techincally a starter)

5. Of starters eligible for FA, I would RESIGN:
-DeAngelo Hall (#1 player priority. I'd give him whatever he wants to stay)
-Pete Kendall (Not a long-term solution, but you cannot find a cheaper
starting caliber guard on the market.
-Montgomery OR Golston (or both if they are cheap)

6. In Free agency, I would acquire:
-QB Jeff Garcia (He is a veteran WCO QB and can start for 1-3 years while
we groom a young QB, whether that is Brennan or a draft pick.)
-RB Brandon Jacobs (if his asking price is too high, then we can go with a
cheaper option)
- WR Bobby Engram or Devery Henderson (both should be cheap and can
fill the role of a #3/#4 WR
- DE Terrell Suggs (Replaces Taylor)
- DT Shaun Cody (Far less expensive than Haynesworth - a good value)
- OLB Carlos Dansby (Replaces Washington)

7. I would use my top draft picks to sign
-Starting Center
-OT who can start at LT in 1-2 years (Samuels needs to move to RT
sometime soon)
-OLB who can start in 1-2 years (I dont trust McIntosh)
-WCO QB
-Big Power RB (if we are unable to sign one in FA)

**************************************************

* So why do I think we should trade Chris Horton?
We are building for the future and we need draft picks. But, you may ask: Horton was our best draft pick. He was the steal of the draft and a GREAT safety. He's young. Doesnt that mean he should be PART of our future? On the surface, that argument makes sense. However, Sundays game vs the Eagles made me realize something - Chris Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry. They both need to play SS to maximize their potential. We are wasting LL by making him sit 20yards back and play SS. Landry was able to do so much against Philly because he played SS while we had Shawn Springs back FS. We simply don't NEED two really good Strong Safeties. Horton has tremendous value right now. We could easily get a low first rounder or high 2nd rounder for him... a pick that could be used to address our needs at LB and along both lines. We could address the FS vacancy one of several ways:
-Sign dawan Landry from the Ravens. he's a FA and no doubt would love to come here and play with his brother.
-Extend/Renegotiate with Springs and move him to safety. (He has shown a reluctance to renegotiate in the past, but we may be able to make a deal that is favorable to both sides)
-Develop Kareem Moore
-Use a draft pick on 1st-3rd round pick on a FS. The least favorite option, to be sure.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

IF we keep Zorn (and it seems we will right now), this is what I would do:

1. Fire Cerrato. Give Scott Pioli whatever he wants to come here.
(We can all agree on that)
2. Give Zorn an experienced WCO Offensive coordinator and have the OC call plays.

3. Attempt to trade:
-Chris Horton (Low 1st/High 2nd rounder - No, i'm not crazy, see below*)
-Jason Campbell (2nd/3rd rounder-he doesnt fit the WCO, plain and simple)
-Jason Taylor (4th rounder)
-Randel El (4th-6th rounder)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (5th rounder - sorry, but we need a short
yardage back. Betts or Cartwright need to go to make room.)

4. Among starters, i would CUT:
-Griff
-Washington
-Taylor (if unable to trade)
-ARE (if unable to trade)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (if unable to trade)
-Rabach
-Thrash (I know, not techincally a starter)
5. Of starters eligible for FA, I would RESIGN:
-DeAngelo Hall (#1 player priority. I'd give him whatever he wants to stay)
-Pete Kendall (Not a long-term solution, but you cannot find a cheaper
starting caliber guard on the market.
-Montgomery OR Golston (or both if they are cheap)

6. In Free agency, I would acquire:
-QB Jeff Garcia (He is a veteran WCO QB and can start for 1-3 years while
we groom a young QB, whether that is Brennan or a draft pick.)
-RB Brandon Jacobs (if his asking price is too high, then we can go with a
cheaper option)
- WR Bobby Engram or Devery Henderson (both should be cheap and can
fill the role of a #3/#4 WR
- DE Terrell Suggs (Replaces Taylor)
- DT Shaun Cody (Far less expensive than Haynesworth - a good value)
- OLB Carlos Dansby (Replaces Washington)

7. I would use my top draft picks to sign
-Starting Center
-OT who can start at LT in 1-2 years (Samuels needs to move to RT
sometime soon)
-OLB who can start in 1-2 years (I dont trust McIntosh)
-WCO QB
-Big Power RB (if we are unable to sign one in FA)

**************************************************

* So why do I think we should trade Chris Horton?
We are building for the future and we need draft picks. But, you may ask: Horton was our best draft pick. He was the steal of the draft and a GREAT safety. He's young. Doesnt that mean he should be PART of our future? On the surface, that argument makes sense. However, Sundays game vs the Eagles made me realize something - Chris Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry. They both need to play SS to maximize their potential. We are wasting LL by making him sit 20yards back and play SS. Landry was able to do so much against Philly because he played SS while we had Shawn Springs back FS. We simply don't NEED two really good Strong Safeties. Horton has tremendous value right now. We could easily get a low first rounder or high 2nd rounder for him... a pick that could be used to address our needs at LB and along both lines. We could address the FS vacancy one of several ways:
-Sign dawan Landry from the Ravens. he's a FA and no doubt would love to come here and play with his brother.
-Extend/Renegotiate with Springs and move him to safety. (He has shown a reluctance to renegotiate in the past, but we may be able to make a deal that is favorable to both sides)
-Develop Kareem Moore
-Use a draft pick on 1st-3rd round pick on a FS. The least favorite option, to be sure.

IF you trade C. Horton you're not getting a 1st or 2nd and a doubt even a 3rd given he is a rookie. The free agents I agree with execpt we dont need anymore #3 or 4 WR's. Cutting Cartright or Betts doesn't make sense, because you need three quality running backs (Giants). If I had to cut a RB it would be Cartright given that you can find a KR in the later rounds and the last time he broke one was 2 yrs ago.

Good post though

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by vallin21

IF you trade C. Horton you're not getting a 1st or 2nd and a doubt even a 3rd given he is a rookie. The free agents I agree with execpt we dont need anymore #3 or 4 WR's. Cutting Cartright or Betts doesn't make sense, because you need three quality running backs (Giants). If I had to cut a RB it would be Cartright given that you can find a KR in the later rounds and the last time he broke one was 2 yrs ago.

Good post though

If I were a betting man, I would be my annual salary we could get a pick in the 25-40 range for Horton. He is one of the top 5 defensive rookies of 2008. Any team in the range i mentioned above would chose Horton over a completely unproven player in the 2009 draft in a heartbeat. I would take something as low as a #50 for him, though. Having him and Landry is nice for Cobra packages, but other than that, they are redundant. Assuming Landry stays healthy, Horton has more value to us in terms of a 1st-2nd round pick than he does on the field. If we didn't have Landry, we wouldnt even be discussing this, of course.

As to your statement about needing 3 quality running backs, i agree - Cartwright is not a quality running back. Every year, we go into the season with TWO quality running backs and Cartwright who is only good on special teams. We need a big running back who can play teams AND contribute on offense regularly. A backfield with Portis, Jacobs, and Betts would be very solid. In goal line and short yardage situations, we could run the big guy behind sellers and we would actually get the yardage 99% of the time.

Going into next year, i'd have Devin Thomas as my #1 WR with Malcom Kelly as my #2. I'd then line up Santana Moss in the slot where he could really exploit being playing against slower corners/linebackers. Engram would be a solid #4/#2 when Kelly gets hurt. He knows the system and he would come cheap. He's a definite upgrade over Thrash and ARE.

[Drift Reality]

BigHairedAristocrat...

I would agree that they should look at bringing additional resources or at least re-allocating existing resources to take some responsibility off of Zorn's plate.

The personnel moves you suggest however are fantasy-football. They aren't going to happen.

[jeff569]

sign Suggs-cut Washington
trade 1st for low 1st and 2nd-draft Curry and Unger
draft Levitre in 3rd
start Brennan, Kelly, and Thomas in place of Campbell, Moss, & ARE
watch Redskins win Super Bowl

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

IF we keep Zorn (and it seems we will right now), this is what I would do:

1. Fire Cerrato. Give Scott Pioli whatever he wants to come here.

2. Give Zorn an experienced WCO Offensive coordinator and have the OC call plays.

3. Attempt to trade:
-Chris Horton (Low 1st/High 2nd rounder - No, i'm not crazy, see below*)
-Jason Campbell (2nd/3rd rounder-he doesnt fit the WCO, plain and simple)
-Jason Taylor (4th rounder)
-Randel El (4th-6th rounder)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (5th rounder - sorry, but we need a short
yardage back. Betts or Cartwright need to go to make room.)

4. Among starters, i would CUT:
-Griff
-Washington
-Taylor (if unable to trade)
-ARE (if unable to trade)
-Rock Cartwright OR Betts (if unable to trade)
-Rabach
-Thrash (I know, not techincally a starter)

5. Of starters eligible for FA, I would RESIGN:
-DeAngelo Hall (#1 player priority. I'd give him whatever he wants to stay)
-Pete Kendall (Not a long-term solution, but you cannot find a cheaper
starting caliber guard on the market.
-Montgomery OR Golston (or both if they are cheap)

6. In Free agency, I would acquire:
-QB Jeff Garcia (He is a veteran WCO QB and can start for 1-3 years while
we groom a young QB, whether that is Brennan or a draft pick.)
-RB Brandon Jacobs (if his asking price is too high, then we can go with a
cheaper option)
- WR Bobby Engram or Devery Henderson (both should be cheap and can
fill the role of a #3/#4 WR
- DE Terrell Suggs (Replaces Taylor)
- DT Shaun Cody (Far less expensive than Haynesworth - a good value)
- OLB Carlos Dansby (Replaces Washington)

7. I would use my top draft picks to sign
-Starting Center
-OT who can start at LT in 1-2 years (Samuels needs to move to RT
sometime soon)
-OLB who can start in 1-2 years (I dont trust McIntosh)
-WCO QB
-Big Power RB (if we are unable to sign one in FA)

**************************************************

* So why do I think we should trade Chris Horton?
We are building for the future and we need draft picks. But, you may ask: Horton was our best draft pick. He was the steal of the draft and a GREAT safety. He's young. Doesnt that mean he should be PART of our future? On the surface, that argument makes sense. However, Sundays game vs the Eagles made me realize something - Chris Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry. They both need to play SS to maximize their potential. We are wasting LL by making him sit 20yards back and play SS. Landry was able to do so much against Philly because he played SS while we had Shawn Springs back FS. We simply don't NEED two really good Strong Safeties. Horton has tremendous value right now. We could easily get a low first rounder or high 2nd rounder for him... a pick that could be used to address our needs at LB and along both lines. We could address the FS vacancy one of several ways:
-Sign dawan Landry from the Ravens. he's a FA and no doubt would love to come here and play with his brother.
-Extend/Renegotiate with Springs and move him to safety. (He has shown a reluctance to renegotiate in the past, but we may be able to make a deal that is favorable to both sides)
-Develop Kareem Moore
-Use a draft pick on 1st-3rd round pick on a FS. The least favorite option, to be sure.

I think you're dead wrong on Campbell vs. the WCO, and obviously trading our franchise QB doesn't help improve the team, puls we wouldn't get anything for him right now because teams like to draft their own QBs.

I also think Dawan Landry has a similar skill set to LaRon, for all the obvious reasons. I don't disagree with your Horton assessment, but I'm not sure what the problem is with having two similar safeties.

Other than that, solid, well-thought out and explained, post.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you're dead wrong on Campbell vs. the WCO, and obviously trading our franchise QB doesn't help improve the team, puls we wouldn't get anything for him right now because teams like to draft their own QBs.

I also think Dawan Landry has a similar skill set to LaRon, for all the obvious reasons. I don't disagree with your Horton assessment, but I'm not sure what the problem is with having two similar safeties.

Other than that, solid, well-thought out and explained, post.

Franchise QB my ass!!!!!! The guy is average tops, and Snyder knows it. Why do you think he is waiting on giving him an extension? If he was the franchise guy, don't you think he would have gotten a deal by now?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you're dead wrong on Campbell vs. the WCO, and obviously trading our franchise QB doesn't help improve the team, puls we wouldn't get anything for him right now because teams like to draft their own QBs.

Features - NFL pro football articles and coverage from Pro Football Weekly

Three of the NFL’s first-time head coaches — Mike Smith, Tony Sparano and John Harbaugh — finished the season with 10 or more victories. Only Jim Zorn, who finished the second half of the season 2-6 after a 6-2 start, did not reach the double-digit mark. The key thread in Atlanta, Miami and Baltimore was very sound decision-making in the personnel department. All three won with new quarterbacks and reshaped rosters. As for Zorn, it was the front office that selected its head coach based in large part on his ability to develop the quarterback already in place, a plan that faltered down the stretch as it became increasingly evident that Jason Campbell did not fit Zorn’s West Coast offense. It would not be a surprise, if Zorn has his way, if Colt Brennan is starting at some point next season, or if Campbell were traded rather than extended long term.

Also, you say trading our "franchise QB" doesnt improve the team... Campbell hasnt done anything to show he is a franchise QB. Jason Campbell = Trent DIlfer and nothing else. He is a guy who doesnt make many mistakes and can manage a game. Thats it. he is GREAT for a gibbs offense but the exact opposite of what we need in the WCO. Campbell might be able to improve, but he will never "fit" this system. He will never reach HIS potential in this system and the system will never reach ITS potential as long as he's the QB.

[over the mountain]

^^ dont think we would get a 1st or 2nd or even a 3rd round pick for horton. i agree with you that we may have been too high on the guy after a few games as i think the SS position gets alot of chances to make tackles and plays but so far hes been solid tackling and coverage should only improve.

i really hope we dont give d hall "whatever he wants". the guy is suspect to me b/c i dont like his show boat attitude but he has played well these past 2 games, i can admit that.

but hey i cant knock ya, the thread is "what would YOU do if you ran the skins . . "

go skins!!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

^^ dont think we would get a 1st or 2nd or even a 3rd round pick for horton. i agree with you that we may have been too high on the guy after a few games as i think the SS position gets alot of chances to make tackles and plays but so far hes been solid tackling and coverage should only improve.

I guess we disagree here. SI.com did a thing last week where they did a "re-draft" and Horton was taken before pick 25, if i remember correctly. Any team targeting a SS in the 2009 draft with a pick between 25 and 40 would trade that pick for Horton in a heartbeat, IMO.

i really hope we dont give d hall "whatever he wants". the guy is suspect to me b/c i dont like his show boat attitude but he has played well these past 2 games, i can admit that.

IMO the defense NEEDS some of that attitude. They NEED someone to get them pumped up. Marcus Washington serves that role when he plays... but he plays few and far between.

[over the mountain]

interesting, i didnt know about that SI re-draft. maybe we could get a late 1st or 2nd for him.

agree about needing an emotion guy on the field and that MW does bring a certain emotion to field . . . man ST was awesome at getting pumped up for games and his hits always brought a shot of energy. i remember when ST and rogers knocked these 2 players flat on their ass on a punt return and our players went banannas, i went banannas, everyone went banannas!!

good stuff big hair

go skins!!

[dmek25]

i think big haired has lost his mind. half of the proposed trades would never happen. your value for most is way too high. and even if you could pull that off, the redskins would be lucky to win 5 games with a brand new roster

[steveb]

we need cassel from n.e. campbell needs to go. the skill level just isn't there.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by steveb

we need cassel from n.e. campbell needs to go. the skill level just isn't there.

Is he bringing Randy Moss with him?