D.C. Examiner: Zorn's job in jeopardy? (not so fast he's coming back)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So let's see here. We have a top ten defense, the defesne has kept us in every single game this year, even w/out having a pass rusher and the offense is pretty much last in scoring and you say Zorn is doing his job better than Blache???????? Sorry Tripp but you're flat out wrong here.

Well, perhaps. But Zorn isn't giving up yards by doing stupid things. Blache is. So while it is my opinion that Zorn should be given a pass for not having the answers (and a lot of smart people are going to disagree with me), it's pretty obvious that Blache has called some moronic defenses that decrease our chances of getting off the field, especially on third down.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, perhaps. But Zorn isn't giving up yards by doing stupid things. Blache is. So while it is my opinion that Zorn should be given a pass for not having the answers (and a lot of smart people are going to disagree with me), it's pretty obvious that Blache has called some moronic defenses that decrease our chances of getting off the field, especially on third down.

Bottom line is we don't give up a lot of points and I believe we're at the top of the NFL in 3 and outs. Blache has more than done his job.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Bottom line is we don't give up a lot of points and I believe we're at the top of the NFL in 3 and outs. Blache has more than done his job.

No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.

[RMSkins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.

I would hate to see this defense if Blache was on top of his game. Opposing offenses would be lucky to gain 150 yards, and score 3 points against us. I'm sorry Tripp, but I can't imagine this defense playing much better than what they already have this season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RMSkins

I would hate to see this defense if Blache was on top of his game. Opposing offenses would be lucky to gain 150 yards, and score 3 points against us. I'm sorry Tripp, but I can't imagine this defense playing much better than what they already have this season.

What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.

The first turnover did not help, for sure. But to think that any other defense in the division would play that poorly in Cincinnati is insanity.

[RMSkins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.

I see what you're saying Tripp, but look at our first loss to the Giants and our loss to the Cowboys. We held the Giants to 16 points and the Cowboys to 14 points. If we had any semblance of an offense in those two games we could've very easily been 4-1 in the division right now.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RMSkins

I see what you're saying Tripp, but look at our first loss to the Giants and our loss to the Cowboys. We held the Giants to 16 points and the Cowboys to 14 points. If we had any semblance of an offense in those two games we could've very easily been 4-1 in the division right now.

14 points because their QB was intercepted on awful throws.

I mean, Romo couldn't even throw the football when he tore us to shreds with dumpoffs to Barber. Couldn't even grip the thing. 6 yards per play for the Cowboys on offense in that game. If not for the two turnovers the defense got, which certainly weren't because of Blache's scheme, we're talking 24-10, maybe 28-10. It was that bad.

Sorry, if a coordinator is unprepared to defend Byron Leftwich, unprepared to take away the passes a QB with a broken thumb can make, unprepared to adjust after Eli Manning beats 8 consecutive blitzes in the rain, he can't coach for a playoff team. We could have won all those games by playing smarter. Who knows if we would have. But we made it easy on them. By my standards, that's grounds for dismissal.

And I realize the total product has been good. We've played some really incompetent passing games. This pass defense is closer to 2006 than 2007, and I was frustrated with Grilliams after 2006.

[RMSkins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What about last year? We were much better last year.

Even post Taylor. We didn't blitz a whole lot, disguised coverages well, and got production from our DL. Carter had ten sacks.

We're an above average unit, but we are also the worst defense in the division. I think you could make an argument that we're also the worst offense in the division, but we are the worst defense, and the worst coached defense in the NFC East. If we want to be competitive, we have to compare ourselves to the competition in the East, not the rest of the NFL.

The first turnover did not help, for sure. But to think that any other defense in the division would play that poorly in Cincinnati is insanity.

I don't even have to make an argument; we are the worst offense and the worst coached offense in the division. It seems as though you're giving Zorn and the offense a free pass and putting way to much blame on Blache and the defense. You don't think Zorn is being totally outcoached by defensive coordinators in our division?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by RMSkins

I don't even have to make an argument; we are the worst offense and the worst coached offense in the division. It seems as though you're giving Zorn and the offense a free pass and putting way to much blame on Blache and the defense. You don't think Zorn is being totally outcoached by defensive coordinators in our division?

I think Zorn's natural tendencies are putting too much responsibility on personnel we don't have to run his crap. Like Devin Thomas, doing anything. But, I think our offensive line, for all the crap it takes, is better than Dallas' and Philly's in pass pro. And I think our QB is having a better year than Philly's. And I know our running back is having a better year than either Dallas or Philly's. So I mean, you put it that way, and maybe we're not the worst.

All things considered though, I think we are the worst offense. I'm just saying, it's very clear cut that we have the worst defense in the defensive-minded East. We probably have the worst offense as well, but at least I can argue that other teams are facing the same offensive issues we are.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No. Because Dallas is holding New York to three offensive points right now, and Philly held them to seven offensive points last week. Meanwhile, this exact same struggling OL managed to pile up 400+ yards of offense against us. Same thing with Dallas two weeks before. The overall product is right around the top ten range, but that's the talent carrying over. Blache has hurt us when we needed him most, against the opponents who know us the best.

If he gets outcoached by the rest of the NFL, I'm more forgiving. He gets outcoached by the rest of the NFC East (and he'll have one more shot next week), and we can't justify keeping him around.

Give me a break. The defense still holds the point total down and gives our offense the ball back. That's the bottom line. You can spin it anyway you want to. Dallas has better players on their defense than we do. Do we have anyone that can dominate like Ware or Ratliff? No. Simply put, when Dallas' front 7 decides to play to their potential they're pretty damn good. And the Giants wr's just beat our CB's. Hixon just beat our guys. Manning made some perfect throws. Why do you blame that on scheme? You simply refuse to give credit to the Giants for having better players.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Give me a break. The defense still holds the point total down and gives our offense the ball back. That's the bottom line. You can spin it anyway you want to. Dallas has better players on their defense than we do. Do we have anyone that can dominate like Ware or Ratliff? No. Simply put, when Dallas' front 7 decides to play to their potential they're pretty damn good. And the Giants wr's just beat our CB's. Hixon just beat our guys. Manning made some perfect throws. Why do you blame that on scheme? You simply refuse to give credit to the Giants for having better players.

No, the bottom line is this: we have one of the top four man secondaries in the NFL, and we play mediocre pass defense. I'm happy they don't give up a lot of points, but they play a lot of weaker offenses, and for most of the year, the offense controlled the time of possession. So yeah, there's that.

I'm not arguing that we do not have a competant defense, like you seem to think I am. I'm arguing that Blache generally doesn't get it, and has cost us dearly this season.

Earlier in the year, I was high on him, but you can't treat Dallas and New York like Cleveland and Detroit. He has.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No, the bottom line is this: we have one of the top four man secondaries in the NFL, and we play mediocre pass defense. I'm happy they don't give up a lot of points, but they play a lot of weaker offenses, and for most of the year, the offense controlled the time of possession. So yeah, there's that.

I'm not arguing that we do not have a competant defense, like you seem to think I am. I'm arguing that Blache generally doesn't get it, and has cost us dearly this season.

Earlier in the year, I was high on him, but you can't treat Dallas and New York like Cleveland and Detroit. He has.

If you put the Giants front four with our secondary the pass defense would improve. The excuse that we play weak offenses is not valid. The defense held down New Orleans, Arizona, Dallas, Philly, The Giants....need I go on? Blache seems to make very good halftime adjustments. Meaning if something works in the first half it doesn't work in the 2nd half. That's a sign of good coaching. Somethimes guys are just getting beat. The coach can only put the guy in position to make the play. Yesterday Smoot was in positon to make a crucial stop on 3rd down, he was in position to make the tackle and didn't and it kept their drive alive. You blame the coach for that?? I don't.

Bottom line is the reason we're in the position we're in is because of an offense that can not score points, can't get first downs, can't sustain drives and keeps sending the defense back on the field. You can nit pick about the defense all you want.... no excuse for not getting a 1st down until the 2q against Cinn. Right now we might have the worst offense in the NFL.