Matt Cassell: Joke or No Joke

[irish]

I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by irish

I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.

Cassel has been watching an all time great run the same offense for years. As for Campbel he gets tossed to the wolves in a brand new offense every year. When you "drop in" JC and expect 11-5...will he have had the benefit of watching and practicing the offense for 3 or 4 years before stepping on the field? If not then it's not a fair comparison...

[irish]

Originally Posted by celts32

Cassel has been watching an all time great run the same offense for years. As for Campbel he gets tossed to the wolves in a brand new offense every year. When you "drop in" JC and expect 11-5...will he have had the benefit of watching and practicing the offense for 3 or 4 years before stepping on the field? If not then it's not a fair comparison...

Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

JC got to watch for a few years and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by irish

Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

JC got to watch for a few years and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.

Come on Irish. He watched for about a year and a half. I agree with some of your points but lets not stretch the truth to make them.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by irish

Watching and doing are two different things. Sure Cassell watched a great but then he had to get in there and do it and guess what, he did it pretty good.

JC got to watch for a few years and then had to do it and it turns out he was only OK at the doing. Its like Sonny said on Reskins Report Sat night, Zorn & Co keep talking about the great improvement JC made in reading the D and getting the team into the right play but that's something, as Sonny said, that any lineman can be taught to do. Its after the snap that concerned Sonny. He said JC appears to have a hard time playing once the ball has been snapped and after his couple years of playing Sonny said he is concerned that he hasnt seen any "flash" of what JC could become. So what I'm saying is that at some point the QB has to actually play and play well and JC still hasnt shown he can do it while Cassell has.

Cassel has been in the league 4 years and got to watch the same exact offense all those years. JC has watched 3 different offenses in his time in the league. It's not a fair comparison is all i am saying. Actually Matt Ryan's season makes JC look bad because he just got in the league and played well imediately.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by celts32

Cassel has been in the league 4 years and got to watch the same exact offense all those years. JC has watched 3 different offenses in his time in the league. It's not a fair comparison is all i am saying. Actually Matt Ryan's season makes JC look bad because he just got in the league and played well imediately.

Ryan had a great season. But, again its so difficult to compare QB unless they are in the exact same circumstanes. Bring Ryan here and put Jason there. I think you would see the Jason we saw in the first half of the season. The Campbell that Jaws was considering for league MVP.
Look at Chad Pennington its all about situation.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by irish

I think the system helps but he is good. I doubt Campbell could have been dropped in there after Brady went down and lead them to 11-5. I think any team Cassell goes to will be better. Just look at Atlanta, Balt, & Miami, they got good QBs and it turned their teams around.

Woah, woah, you don't think Campbell could have been drop into Cassel situation and done the same if not better?

WHAT?

Matt Cassel
TDS
21
INT
11
YDS
3,693
RTG
89.4

Jason Campbell
TDS
13
INT
6
YDS
3,245
RTG
84.3

Answer this question?

How can Jason who put up similiar numbers under far worse circumstances be the lesser of the 2 QBs?

Consider:
-Rookie HC vs. the Hoody
-Rookie playcaller & OC/ vs Josh McDaniels one the best young offensive minds
-1st year in new offense/ 3 years in a proven system watching Brady do it the right way
- inferior receiveing corps/ Randy Moss vs. Santana Moss or Wes Welker vs. Randle El
- inferior offensive line ( see previos post)

C'mon people were better then this right?

[mredskins]

C'mon people were better then this right?[/quote]

That sounds like something my fifth grade teacher would say. Weak.

[irish]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Woah, woah, you don't think Campbell could have been drop into Cassel situation and done the same if not better?

WHAT?

Matt Cassel
TDS
21
INT
11
YDS
3,693
RTG
89.4

Jason Campbell
TDS
13
INT
6
YDS
3,245
RTG
84.3

Answer this question?

How can Jason who put up similiar numbers under far worse circumstances be the lesser of the 2 QBs?

Consider:
-Rookie HC vs. the Hoody
-Rookie playcaller & OC/ vs Josh McDaniels one the best young offensive minds
-1st year in new offense/ 3 years in a proven system watching Brady do it the right way
- inferior receiveing corps/ Randy Moss vs. Santana Moss or Wes Welker vs. Randle El
- inferior offensive line ( see previos post)

C'mon people were better then this right?

The Skins record shows what they are, an 8-8 team. His numbers show he's the lesser QB because he has lesser numbers than Cassell. There is no way JC could have gone up there and thrown 21 TD passes, he just isnt an accurate enough passer to do that.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by irish

His numbers show he's the lesser QB because he has lesser numbers than Cassell

What?

Cassel only managed to put up slightly better numbers then Campbell yet Cassel was handed the keys to one of, if not the most potent passing attacks NFL history.

Follow me here.

If Jason can put up nearly the same numbers with a far less talented supporting cast then Cassel.
Doesn't it makes sense that Jason would do better with Cassel's supporting cast?

[irish]

Originally Posted by 30gut

What?

Cassel only managed to put up slightly better numbers then Campbell yet Cassel was handed the keys to one of, if not the most potent passing attacks NFL history.

Follow me here.

If Jason can put up nearly the same numbers with a far less talented supporting cast then Cassel.
Doesn't it makes sense that Jason would do better with Cassel's supporting cast?

He was handed the keys but he didnt wreck the car. In fact he drove the car to a nice finish. People dont seem to take into account that he could have played bad and not won games but he didnt screw up and led the team to 11 wins in his first season as QB. Does JC have 11 wins total yet?

If JC was put into NE this year they would never have won 11 games because JC isnt accurate enough (his accuracy numbers are worse than MC throwing almost exclusively dink & dump passes) to make NE's O roll. He would bring NE down.

If MC played for the Skins this year I doubt he would have done much better than JC because the Skins just arent that good a team. With a good team MC will 10 times out of 10 end up getting the team to a better record than JC.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by irish

He was handed the keys but he didnt wreck the car. In fact he drove the car to a nice finish. People dont seem to take into account that he could have played bad and not won games but he didnt screw up and led the team to 11 wins in his first season as QB. Does JC have 11 wins total yet?

If JC was put into NE this year they would never have won 11 games because JC isnt accurate enough (his accuracy numbers are worse than MC throwing almost exclusively dink & dump passes) to make NE's O roll. He would bring NE down.

If MC played for the Skins this year I doubt he would have done much better than JC because the Skins just arent that good a team. With a good team MC will 10 times out of 10 end up getting the team to a better record than JC.

If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks.

All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.

You mean to tell me if the Redskins swapped receiving corps with NE that JC's numbers wouldn't look a lot better, and Cassell's wouldn't look worse? I'm not buying that for one second.

NE has much better receiving options and an offense that has been fully installed for years.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks. All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.

It makes sense if you're hell bent on bashing JC.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GMScud

If Cassell was on the Skins this year, he would have done no better than JC? But if JC was on NE they "never" would have won 11 games? That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If MC is so much better, wouldn't he have won a few more games for us? As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brady won 3 Super Bowls with the likes of Troy Brown, David Givens, and Deion Branch, and had a 30 something Corey Dillon running the ball. It's not like he had a star studded cast during that 4 season tear.

NE had the most team rushing yards in about 20 years this season. Belicheck wisely adjusted his game plan to help out the young kid. And NE didn't throw a lot of vertical stuff either. Sure, the occasional deep shot to R.Moss because he can jump up and go get anything, but their offense was far from vertical this season - see Wes Welker's 109 catches, most of which were dinks.

All that, and MC had a completion % less than one point better than JC.

You mean to tell me if the Redskins swapped receiving corps with NE that JC's numbers wouldn't look a lot better, and Cassell's wouldn't look worse? I'm not buying that for one second.

NE has much better receiving options and an offense that has been fully installed for years.

If Wash & NE swapped receiving corps I think MC's would go up and JC's would go down because MC would throw more short passes which I think he would complete a bunch of. JC would likely throw deeper more often and he just isnt good at that so IMO it possible his % would go down.