I guess no one likes VC.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

^ I would say I don't keep up with college ball and don't know who the heck they are. But if they can help the team so be it....however, everyone the team picks usually does not amount to much their first yr. I know, Taylor, Landry, Horton, but keep in mind it's a lot easier to be put in a position were all you have to do is sit in the back field and wait for the home run try...and occassionaly rush the QB...and not get there in time.

Everyone else other then Heyer has been relegated to practice squad or let go. Then got picked up by other teams. Funny, Mason was with us 2 yrs and looked to be an excellent replacement for Portis one day and we lose him. Then people are talking about picking up another RB in the later rounds of the draft for the same reason. Go figure. Someone else to have to take 2 more yrs to learn his job before he hits the field.

The two above are both WR, but are tremendously talented compared to the talent that was at the position in last years draft. People here were talking about Micheal Crabtree last year.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

The two above are both WR, but are tremendously talented compared to the talent that was at the position in last years draft. People here were talking about Micheal Crabtree last year.

Then I would say we are screwed. Not cause I don't want an elite WR but cause we have basically a college coach trying to teach pros how to run routes. It has not worked in 5 yrs, we have had no production from our WR's in the last 5yrs, and anyone we picked up in the hopes they will make this team better appear to suck or can't get on the field due to lack of knowlege of the plays/routes. But lets not hold anyone accountable cause we can always pick up more next yr or draft another WR in hopes he will work out. The only reason Moss, ARE, and Thrash have worked out for us is cause they were trained prior to Hixon being here. Moss trained with the Jets, ARE trained with Pitt, and Thrash started here and got fine tuned in the WCO with the Eagles. No one else has produced. No one else has been developed since Hixon has gotten here. Everyone who had talent according to the team came, did ok or nothing at all, left and did better then here...ie; Coles, Patton, and Lloyd ring a bell. I'm afraid to ask where Mix went.

[WaldSkins]

Crabtree is a sure thing hands down. Not that we need another WR but he would definately be an upgrade over Thomas

[44ever]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Crabtree is a sure thing hands down. Not that we need another WR but he would definately be an upgrade over Thomas

this is a prime example of why some people question VC's logic. Not that I disagree.

[sportscurmudgeon]

I have been in the same room with Vinny Carrato precisely one time and I believe the only words I spoke to him were "Nice to meet you; good luck this year." So, I have no basis to like or dislike him.


I do not subscribe to the idea that he is a great evaluator of college or pro talent. While I agree it is too early to dclare last year's draft a disaster, it is highly dissappointing that only ONE of the draftees/undrafted free agents made significant contributions on Sundays.


[Someone said that if the Skins were not running a WCO then they might have found Desean Jackson useful. Excuse me, but the Eagles run the WCO too. Andy Reid worked with Bill Walsh and Mike Holmgren on the offensive side of the ball; his ideas and Jim Zorn's ideas about offense are far more similar than they are different.]


Here is what I really would want to see happen. I want Vinnie to stop with his radio program twice a week. I did a little bit if radio many years ago - - probably before half the folks on this board were born - - and you don't do a two-hour radio program by showing up 15 minutes before the light goes on and just start talking. (Smootsmack can provide some current insight here.)


Vinnie's most important job is to evaluate talent - - talent he should try to get on the Redskins' roster. Vinnie's fifty-ninth most important job is to do a two-hour radio show twice a week. He is not evaluating talent when he is on the radio or when he is prepping for his radio show.


Yes, I know that some coaches and GMs have radio shows besides Vinnie. But just because someone else does it does not make it the best thing to do. I suspect your Mom told you that a time or two when you were growing up...

[Defensewins]

Vinny basically took WR's in a bad year for WR's. The 2008 WR's class was not very good. The 2009 WR class is strong. This is one of many mistakes Vinny made in 2008.
Yet he keeps his job.
His job performance is not judged the same way others in the organization are.
We have an owner that fired a successful coach Marty Schottenheimer after only one season. Yet he keeps Vinny on for 8 years now.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Vinny basically took WR's in a bad year for WR's. The 2008 WR's class was not very good. The 2009 WR class is strong. This is one of many mistakes Vinny made in 2008.
Yet he keeps his job.
His job performance is not judged the same way others in the organization are.
We have an owner that fired a successful coach Marty Schottenheimer after only one season. Yet he keeps Vinny on for 8 years now.

Hopefully Vinny avoids receivers this year like the plague but if he dares to draft one with one of his first 3 picks then I'm going to call for his head (figuratively of course). I mean Vinny's going to do whatever he's going to do. I think that the BPA explanation must have been something PR came up with because this organizations top is more determined to find receivers then a junkie is to find a fix.

I can only hope that Vinny's interst in offensive line prospects last year was genuine because if it is then at least theres a willingness to strongly consider finding players along the front lines.

[SBXVII]

Oh but you look good taking the "Best available player" at the time....I mean look at Detroit with all the first round picks and WR's. LOL.

When making apple juice and all you have is lemons you make the best of what you have....you make lemon juice. Atleast you have juice. We have fruit ....we just need to make something of them. Unfortunatly Hixon has no clue as to how to make juice.

[redsk1]

When VC provides a good on field product I'll like him. In his 7-8 years here he has not.

He has not made good coaching hires, he has missed on players just as much as he's hit w/ players, he's not handled contracts very well, he's not handled the draft very well. He deserved to be fired after this year, but hey might as well stick w/ it one more year right.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redsk1

When VC provides a good on field product I'll like him. In his 7-8 years here he has not.

He has not made good coaching hires, he has missed on players just as much as he's hit w/ players, he's not handled contracts very well, he's not handled the draft very well. He deserved to be fired after this year, but hey might as well stick w/ it one more year right.

I think you may need to point the finger more at Snyder over the issues you brought up. Snyder has always handled the contracts and up until the Zorn hire I don't think VC had much say in the coaching hires. And the level of his input over player moves and drafts up until last year is debatable at best.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think you may need to point the finger more at Snyder over the issues you brought up. Snyder has always handled the contracts and up until the Zorn hire I don't think VC had much say in the coaching hires. And the level of his input over player moves and drafts up until last year is debatable at best.

You're right, it is debatable. We really don't know who made decision up until a year ago.

I tend to think that no one else is higher than VC in the FO for the last 8 years or so. Sure JG's had a fancy President title, but it was a 3 headed monster w/ JG, VC and DS. How do we make some of these mistakes w/out VC standing up saying that signing B Lloyd and giving him a new contract is a major mistake (insert A Carter, AA, TJ Duckett, you get the point)? Granted he most likely made the decision (he admitted as much), but how can this happen on his watch? How could he not have major issues w/ this? How could he in good faith be a part of such strange personel moves?

You're right in that i'm sure DS get's involved and I'm sure coaches get involved but you can't let some of these things happen.

VC has been a constant for our losing organization. Let's start over. Give him one more year w/ Zorn. If no playoffs...let's start over.

[44ever]

This is a team that went into Dallas and Philly and won. And then lost to the Rams at home and the Bengals. Vinny's fault? Come on. Gotta give "his" system a chance.

It doesn't matter how long he's been with the Skins. He didn't have control until now. This team has been in a state of transition far to long. It's time to stick with it.
(for a change)

Next year Vinny's the man!

[MTK]

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

We're not going to see any changes in the assistant coaches on staff either.

Cerrato said that any changes to the assistant coaches is "totally up to Jim (Zorn)." Zorn responding by saying no one is going anywhere.

So before anyone blasts VC for not firing Stan Hixon or Danny Smith, remember it's Zorn's call. However, VC could always trump Zorn and get rid of whoever he wants.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.