Observation on Campbell

[Ruhskins]

I think any talks about the QB position should only be about the development of Jason Campbell, and having for once true continuity in the passing game and offense in general. I say this, b/c I believe this is the first year we're going to have continuity. I feel that Gibbs never quite developed Campbell (coach didn't seem to care much for young QBs, hence Brunell), brought in a whole new offense with Saunders, and it seems that there was some type of friction between Saunders' and Gibbs' input on offense. So I feel that while JC played for Gibbs, there was no continuity; then Gibbs left, in comes Zorn (another change).

Other than giving JC a second year and having true continuity, what are the options?

- Colt Brennan: NO. If you put in a rookie QB, you might as well turn the team into rebuilding mode. I don't think we have the personnel to pull off what the Ravens are doing this season with a rook QB, and I don't think Brennan can pull a Matt Ryan.

- Free Agent QBs: Well here's your list of 2009 FA QB (Warner, Cassel, Garcia, Grossman, Kyle Boller, Chaz Batch, Kerry Collins, JP Losman, and Patrick Ramsey). I don't think any of these players are elite enough to come and make a difference. And bringing a new QB kills continuity.

- Trade for a QB? That's not going to happen.

So the options outside of Jason Campbell are not that great. I think a reasonable fan would hope the following for this offseason
- Offensive line addressed, emphasis on pass protection in training camp
- Maybe better coaching at the WR position?
- Hoping that true continuity between Zorn year 1 and Zorn year 2 helps Campbell's development into an elite QB.

Campbell had good passing stats, had better accuracy, and did not turn the ball over during the first 8 games of the season when our o-line was protecting him a little bit and Portis was healthy and running the ball well. I think the team and the fans should give JC one more year to show us that he can lead this team into the playoffs; especially if the team addresses the issues that a lot of us have been pointing out in offense (pass protection/o-line in general, WRs getting open, better play calling?, etc., etc.)

[SBXVII]

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

[bedlamVR]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Look I am not saying everyone who criticizes Campbell is racist some of the comments made about him are fair, but so many are not and are contradictory and illogical .

Yes we have ripped Brunell in the past, Ramsey not so much, but much of the talk about Brunell was based on his age and diminishing skills, not about his origin .

You didn't have people wishing a career ending injury on him as I have seen someone post on ES about Campbell . ( And this was at the beginning of the season) . I hear that Campbell is slow witted, cannot read NFL defenses, locks onto one reciever, yet he only threw 6 interceptions and completed 62.2 % of his passes how do those facts hold together ?

All he does is dump of to backs ? Okay then how come Moss was 12th in the league (8th in the NFC) Just behind Owens in yards going over 1000 yards for only the third time in his career ?

Cooley ranked first in the NFC in terms of receptions with 83, and second in terms of yards ...both career highs.

Both Cooley and Moss were averaging over 10 yards per reception ....

Compare Campbell to other NFL Qbs- like with like is that too much to ask . Ask any Redskin fan if they would trade Ben Roethlisberger for Campbell most would say yes in a heart beat.... but look at Ben Roethlisberger ... a good NFL QB ? Campbell on a lesser team out strips him in % completion, interceptions/TD ratio and QB rating ... Ben Roethlisberger has better/Comparable tools in Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller . Okay the Pittsburg line was porus and he got sacked alot and he fumbled 14 times loosing the ball 7 times but so was ours . (Campbell fumbled 6 times loosing 1) ....

You can point to Qbs with better stats ... Drew Brees is a particular example . Brees throws for a lot of yards, lots of TDs but a lot of Interceptions the saints finished 8-8 and Brees in a lot of games I saw (particulary Saints- Panthers game) did more harm than good to his team with untimely turnovers ( Had it not been for the play of Bush on Special teams the Panthers would have destroyed the Saints)

The thing that frustrates me most is the impatience of fans with Campbell . If the Colts fans had been as impatient with Payton Manning, or the Cowboys fans been so unforgiving of Troy Aikman when both players lead their teams to 1-15 finishes history would be so much different . I am not saying Campbell is great ... he has areas to improve in ... everyone does .

It is not just me saying Campbell has promise .. The fact that some NFL commentators were talking about Campbell as MVP . These are the ones who watch and play the sport for a living and they see something in the guy... Rick Snider went out of his way to praise Campbells gutsy play in the 49ers game ....equally the fact the Redskins are not rushing to tie him up to an extension says he is not perfect ..

Now had you come out like this in your first statement I would not have thought of you as a reverse biggot. I apologize. True the Skins were one of the last to bring black players to it's team. but please keep in mind this is a different era...this is not the 60's and we don't have seperate bathrooms and the majority of fan's and owners do not look at black players as second class citizens anymore.

I'm also not nieve enought to believe white biggotry is still not happening. It is those white ignorant assholes that make the rest of the white population look bad. ....and that's how you have to look at them as ignorant a-holes and move on. Don't hold conversations with them and don't try to change their minds cause you won't. Also keep in mind the majority of the biggotry comes from their up bringing. Parents passing on ideals to their kids. I'm not trying to find an excuse for them cause everyone is their own person and can use their minds. I'm sure all our parents passed on traits to us that others find either noble or terrible.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

The redskins were also the last team include black players - Bobby Mitchell in 1964 - proud of that fact ?

Shutup, many of us weren't even alive and none of us were the GM's, owners, coaches, etc

Most of our avatars are of black players, we tend to love Portis, etc.. Cooley is about the only white guy that anyone that loves our team has a boner for, other than Brennan

for some reason you WANT that to be the issue, it's ridiculous

[irish]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also keep in mind your kinda barking up the wrong tree with the whole racial issue when the Skins were the first NFL football team to have a black QB take the team to a SB and win it and we as fans are proud of that fact.

Its a welll known fact that the Skins were the last team to allow black players on the team (that's a big reason why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC as the Cowboys were one of the first to integrate). It took Bobby Kennedy to tell WP Marshall that either he integrate or he cant play in DC's new stadium.

[NM Redskin]

Wait Campbells black?

[Bigreds77]

Campbell seems like a very good person & me being a die hard Redskins fan I wish him nothing but the best. His line to give him more time so he can prove that he is a big time QB.

[CRedskinsRule]

20 yrs ago we won a sb with a black qb
40 yrs ago we were the last to integrate
60 yrs ago there was no integration.
guess what, all of this is HISTORY. can we please focus on the team at hand. Is ANYONE watching a football game and thinking race has any bearing???
please ... move on from it already

[firstdown]

I'm not sold on him and have alot of the same concerns but I think he needs one more year in the system then decide. I'm tired of all the excuses for him and its time for him to produce. He now has to earn a new deal.

[MTK]

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

Right on. Hasselbeck was actually benched for Trent Dilfer mid-way through his first year as a starter in WCO, and still went on to multiple pro bowls and an NFC Championship.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating
And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:
2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

Good Post, Matt also had 1 year on the bench in Green Bay.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Hey GM, perhaps I'm wrong but I thought the WCO was supposed to be the easiest to learn and the fastest. It has only a few to a hanful of basic formations that all the other plays develope from. I thought Gibbs system was supposed to be the hardest do to all the different base formations and motions.

ESPN - Hasselbeck thriving in West Coast offense - NFL
^^^John Clayton article
SEATTLE -- Mike Holmgren professes that it takes three years to make a quarterback in the West Coast offense, and it takes five years for a West Coast quarterback to become a very good one.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

Thank You!

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by BeastsoftheNFCeast

This is a little late to say now that the season is over...but its something thats been bugging me. Jason Campbell is slow in everything he does. When I watch him back in the pocket, he has no urgency to throw the ball; he takes forever to look look at his second or third target, he has a slow release on the ball, he doesnt drop back quickly, and hes not that fast of a runner (and the worst slider Ive ever seen...seriously its not that hard). I think he's got an OK arm (good strength, not so good acuracy), seems to make OK decisions when he throws the ball, but makes too many non decisions due to his slow processing. I really dont think this guy can get the job done and we need to get someone who can.

no urgency because no receivers are getting open. 2nd and 3rd targets rarely get the ball because he is on his ass if he holds the ball for more than 2 or 3 seconds. Decent runner, does have to work on the sliding. very strong arm, good deep ball and thrown with a 60.2% accuracy. Pretty damn good. I dont think he was the problem.