The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

[skinsfan69]

I think it's silly to bring up 1999-2003. It's pointless. Gibbs has to take some responsibilty for some of the bad moves the team has made while he was here. And it doesn't seem Snyder is nearly as involved as Davis and Jones. But if Snyder REALLY wanted to win bad enough, he'd go out and get some people who really knew how to put a team together. Floyd Reece has been sitting out there for a while now. Why isn't he here in some capacity? Reece has as much experience as anyone out there. I know a lot of you out there will frown on it but Casserly knows the league and has helped put together SB winning teams. Why isn't he here? IMO Snyder doesn't want to win bad enough.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think it's silly to bring up 1999-2003. It's pointless. Gibbs has to take some responsibilty for some of the bad moves the team has made while he was here. And it doesn't seem Snyder is nearly as involved as Davis and Jones. But if Snyder REALLY wanted to win bad enough, he'd go out and get some people who really knew how to put a team together. Floyd Reece has been sitting out there for a while now. Why isn't he here in some capacity? Reece has as much experience as anyone out there. I know a lot of you out there will frown on it but Casserly knows the league and has helped put together SB winning teams. Why isn't he here? IMO Snyder doesn't want to win bad enough.

To the extent that as Team President Gibbs had the final "yes or no" on any given player, I would agree -- he bears some responsibility. But I don't think Gibbs was a micro-manager in that role. I believe he knew his limitations, and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.

As one who was never afraid to delegate responsibilities, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Gibbs handed the duty of player scouting and grading of college and pro free agents over to Vinny. We know that the overriding philosophy for the Redskins has always been to take the best player available. So isn't it reasonable to say that Gibbs directed Vinny to present to him the best players he thought were available, and Gibbs basically went with them? I think so.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

...and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.

Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.

True Gibbs had final say but he was still deciding off of recomendations from his scouting department that was run by Vinny. If you recomend 3 bad ideas to me and I pick one then who's fault was it really?

Gibbs is a great coach but he never had a track record of good personel decisions...his biggest mistake in the 2nd go around was not insisting that Danny get him a real GM. But in truth Gibbs probably felt he could do it and was comfortable not having a GM on more equal footing with him like inthe old days.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by celts32

True Gibbs had final say but he was still deciding off of recomendations from his scouting department that was run by Vinny. If you recomend 3 bad ideas to me and I pick one then who's fault was it really?

Gibbs is a great coach but he never had a track record of good personel decisions...his biggest mistake in the 2nd go around was not insisting that Danny get him a real GM. But in truth Gibbs probably felt he could do it and was comfortable not having a GM on more equal footing with him like inthe old days.

No. That is not how scouting works. Scouts are synthesizers. They watch thousands of plays and put together portfolios on players. They eliminate obvious "no"s and highlite obvious "yes"s. It is then up to the decision makers to poor over the synthesized data and watch pertinent film. VC probably had recomendatory responsibilities but in all reality does anyone think JG just let VC tell him who to pick? If that was the case then I lose a lot of respect for him. I doubt it worked that way though.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

No. That is not how scouting works. Scouts are synthesizers. They watch thousands of plays and put together portfolios on players. They eliminate obvious "no"s and highlite obvious "yes"s. It is then up to the decision makers to poor over the synthesized data and watch pertinent film. VC probably had recomendatory responsibilities but in all reality does anyone think JG just let VC tell him who to pick? If that was the case then I lose a lot of respect for him. I doubt it worked that way though.

I just find it hard to believe that Gibbs had the time to make these decisions without heavy imput from Vinny. Gibbs even said it was all of us every time they added a player. I don't think Gibbs blindly followed Vinny's opinions but Vinny had a significant role in the Gibbs front office so it's foolish to think that his opinions were not heard and valued.

I love Gibbs as much as or more then anyone on this board...but he was a coach not a GM and that is what doomed Gibbs 2.0 to the moderate success it had.

[Bishop Hammer]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think it's silly to bring up 1999-2003. It's pointless. Gibbs has to take some responsibilty for some of the bad moves the team has made while he was here. And it doesn't seem Snyder is nearly as involved as Davis and Jones. But if Snyder REALLY wanted to win bad enough, he'd go out and get some people who really knew how to put a team together. Floyd Reece has been sitting out there for a while now. Why isn't he here in some capacity? Reece has as much experience as anyone out there. I know a lot of you out there will frown on it but Casserly knows the league and has helped put together SB winning teams. Why isn't he here? IMO Snyder doesn't want to win bad enough.

"Gibbs has to take some of the responsibility"! JG only led the Skins to the playoffs twice in 4 years here. How many of Snyder's other coaches can say that? How many can say they even lasted 4 years here for that matter?

The fact that Gibbs came up one game shy of making the NFC Championship under Snyder is a testiment to Joe's coaching genius.

But you are right that there are GMs availiable who could do a better job than "Dan the Man". Reece would be a big upgrade to whoever is running the show. Or someone from the Patriots FO. Really anyone who would tell Snyder "Butt out, sign the checks and let me do what I was hired
for." Sadly that will never happen because Snyder would never hire someone who would do that.

Another reason why Cerrato is the only GM who Danny boy want to work with. Cerrato has shown some idea of what he is doing but has not shown the testicular fortitude to tell our beloved dictator to handle the financial side and he'll do the football part.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

"Gibbs has to take some of the responsibility"! JG only led the Skins to the playoffs twice in 4 years here. How many of Snyder's other coaches can say that? How many can say they even lasted 4 years here for that matter?

The fact that Gibbs came up one game shy of making the NFC Championship under Snyder is a testiment to Joe's coaching genius.

But you are right that there are GMs availiable who could do a better job than "Dan the Man". Reece would be a big upgrade to whoever is running the show. Or someone from the Patriots FO. Really anyone who would tell Snyder "Butt out, sign the checks and let me do what I was hired
for." Sadly that will never happen because Snyder would never hire someone who would do that.

Another reason why Cerrato is the only GM who Danny boy want to work with. Cerrato has shown some idea of what he is doing but has not shown the testicular fortitude to tell our beloved dictator to handle the financial side and he'll do the football part.

The same genius who had to have Brunell?

[Bishop Hammer]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The same genius who had to have Brunell?

Sticking with Brunell was a mistake I am not going to defend. None the less, Gibbs was the only coach to succeed under Snyder. In large part because Snyder did not interfere in the football operations ie picking players soley because they were a big name star.

If there was a proper GM here under Gibbs' second coming he would have been a lot more successful. As it stood Danny boy was largely responsible for some of the gaffs Joe suffered from, by not be able to supply him with all the tools he needed.

Once again how many of Snyder's past coaches have done as well as Gibbs? For that matter, lets see how well many of his future coaches do.