The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

From an old thread I started:

I'll admit upfront I was one of the few Skins fans who really, really believed Gregg Williams should have been promoted to HC within about 24 hrs of Gibbs retirement. As the JLC article (link below) points out, and I think we all knew it whether we liked or disliked Williams, the man who took this defense from an abomination to a top 10 d for three of his four years held immense respect from players, coaches and staff. I think it spoke volumes when players (from both sides of the ball if memory serves) expressed disappointment that he was not retained as the team's leader.

I'll also admit I thought Saunders deserved, based on the preponderance of evidence his long career makes available, the opportunity to be sole commander of the offensive scheme/playcalling for at least one full year. We will remember JC got the opportunity to observe at the end of last season how Saunders offense could engender some real success, and to boot w/ a less talented QB in Collins at the helm.

Snyder clearly chose to take the team in a very different direction, and I'm not just spewing sour grapes here... just give this another thought. As I've gotten more and more sick to my stomach at what has happened to the team I've searched out old articles, reread a lot of material. The JLC article I linked really struck me in January; however the following excitement of Zorn's hire put it to the back of my mind.

Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

When I read it again (yesterday and about 10 times since) it strikes me even more. With Gibbs, the coach w/ the highest character any of us can think of, still packing his things at Redskins Park Snyder had already regressed into the immature, characterless goon he was 4 years earlier. While my heart goes out to nearly all of the players and most of the coaches (and us fans) over what has happened, I believe Snyder deserves the worst franchise in football. The smear campaign was a testament to his utter lack of decency, and while I don't really believe in Karma either... we reap what we sow.

Just don't mistake me. I have all the hope in the world Zorn has great success as our HC... my point (the forest through the trees as I see it) is beyond Zorn I doubt very much a quality, high-character guy will go to work for Snyder. Curious to know what you think...

Here's the actual link: Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

Why is Shanahan the favorite name dropped as of late (just out of curiosity)?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Why is Shanahan the favorite name dropped as of late (just out of curiosity)?

Just my opinion, but Cowher is VERY close to Schottenhiemer, mentor-type relationship. Nuff said there.

For Holmgren to come, Snyder would have to have just fired Zorn. That's pretty cold, to take over a team your boy just got fired from.

Shanahan has the name, the resume, the status, the repiutation, the ego and the greed to be a perfect fit.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Just my opinion, but Cowher is VERY close to Schottenhiemer, mentor-type relationship. Nuff said there.

For Holmgren to come, Snyder would have to have just fired Zorn. That's pretty cold, to take over a team your boy just got fired from.

Shanahan has the name, the resume, the status, the repiutation, the ego and the greed to be a perfect fit.

Never really thought of Shanahan as an ego and greed guy but then I don't really know much about him.

... be very surprised if Snyder ever gets a coach of Shanahan's caliber. It's critical Zorn makes a go of things.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Just my opinion, but Cowher is VERY close to Schottenhiemer, mentor-type relationship. Nuff said there.

For Holmgren to come, Snyder would have to have just fired Zorn. That's pretty cold, to take over a team your boy just got fired from.

Shanahan has the name, the resume, the status, the repiutation, the ego and the greed to be a perfect fit.

There is an interesting piece in Sports Illustrated about how the smart choice in NFL coaching does not seem to the recycled "name' coach anymore. Looking at the successful playoff teams they are new breed coaches not retreads that have come out of retirement. I think canning Zorn and hiring a retread like Shannahan or Holmgren would be a mistake and current history seems to bear this out.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by irish

There is an interesting piece in Sports Illustrated about how the smart choice in NFL coaching does not seem to the recycled "name' coach anymore. Looking at the successful playoff teams they are new breed coaches not retreads that have come out of retirement. I think canning Zorn and hiring a retread like Shannahan or Holmgren would be a mistake and current history seems to bear this out.

The problem with that is your really basing that off one year in the NFL and not the trend over a giving number of years. Just look at the last several SB winners Giants, Colts, Steelers, Pats, Pats, Tampa and the newest coach among them is Gruden. So history does not support your theory. It could also be siad that the Steelers coach (forgot his name) is playing with players he inherited from Cowher so its kind of hard to judge if he will be the next best coach in the NFL.

[irish]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The problem with that is your really basing that off one year in the NFL and not the trend over a giving number of years. Just look at the last several SB winners Giants, Colts, Steelers, Pats, Pats, Tampa and the newest coach among them is Gruden. So history does not support your theory. It could also be siad that the Steelers coach (forgot his name) is playing with players he inherited from Cowher so its kind of hard to judge if he will be the next best coach in the NFL.

Its not my theory its what the author of the article said. Its an interesting article.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

There is an interesting piece in Sports Illustrated about how the smart choice in NFL coaching does not seem to the recycled "name' coach anymore. Looking at the successful playoff teams they are new breed coaches not retreads that have come out of retirement. I think canning Zorn and hiring a retread like Shannahan or Holmgren would be a mistake and current history seems to bear this out.

In most cases I may agree with you, but in the Redskins (really Snyder) case, there would need to be a larger than life presence for Snyder to really back off and cede all power to a 'football guy'. I just can't see him bringing in a regular GM and a regular coach and letting them revamp our football ops.

Kinda like with Gibbs-I'll give you all control out of deference and awe but when it came to last offseason he didn't entertain anyone outside the organization for a GM but was willing (reportedly) to give full power to Carroll or Cowher.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

In most cases I may agree with you, but in the Redskins (really Snyder) case, there would need to be a larger than life presence for Snyder to really back off and cede all power to a 'football guy'. I just can't see him bringing in a regular GM and a regular coach and letting them revamp our football ops.

Kinda like with Gibbs-I'll give you all control out of deference and awe but when it came to last offseason he didn't entertain anyone outside the organization for a GM but was willing (reportedly) to give full power to Carroll or Cowher.

That's the reason why the Skins wont be successful with DS in charge. He wont let the football guys do their thing.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by irish

That's the reason why the Skins wont be successful with DS in charge. He wont let the football guys do their thing.

Errrr. We have to get 'football guys' first! I don't qualify Vinny for that!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

So you talked to Coward and Holmgren and they told you this or its is something that you made up based on nothing.