Zorn seeing the same things we do

[SmootSmack]

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

[cobracai1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

Great info. I understand all of the frustration. It has been awhile since the glory days of RFK but cmon. Once a skins fan always a skins fan. Badgering "your" team is fine as long as its your team. Just because we are in a slump (albeit a pretty long one), there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I like Zorn and I like a lot of our guys. Lets keep on track and I think it'll be alright.

HTTR

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

Fair enough on the first point. On the second one, who exactly is "pretty much everyone" Other owners don't necessarily think Snyder is one of the worst, players don't, coaches don't. Plus we're not talking about bailing on the Redskins and jumping into your DeLorean to go back in time to 1998 and the Broncos Super Bowl, we're talking about now.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

Didn't Gibbs also speak highly of Snyder? DS has cleaned up his image of late except among a (i think) small percentage of the fan base and media who will always see him as he was when he first bought the team.

[grantarchy]

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by grantarchy

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

I get what your saying about loyalty of the coaches, players, ect... And yes times have changed. And I guess the old school fans will stick with their teams while the newer fans will not feel the sense of loyalty to a team for life. Probably because of the lack of loyalty of the NFL as a whole. I'm glad I had the pleasure of being a old school fan from a time when you can buy a favorite players jersey and wear it more than 2 years. When players and coaches loved their team as much as the fans did.

I'll always be a Redskins fan!

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by 44ever

I get what your saying about loyalty of the coaches, players, ect... And yes times have changed. And I guess the old school fans will stick with their teams while the newer fans will not feel the sense of loyalty to a team for life. Probably because of the lack of loyalty of the NFL as a whole. I'm glad I had the pleasure of being a old school fan from a time when you can buy a favorite players jersey and wear it more than 2 years. When players and coaches loved their team as much as the fans did.

I'll always be a Redskins fan!

I have lived in Baltimore since 1995 and I feel that the die hard fan base of both the Ravens and the Redskins is very strong up here. Don't get me wrong Ravens fans can be fickle, like last year when they won 5 games as SB contenders. Tix were very easy to come by to their stadium. But I feel that they maintain a strong, smaller fan base by ensuring they keep their keystone players for almost the duration of their career if not for their entire career.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by grantarchy

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

Just to be clear, you do know that Snyder had nothing to do with hiring Norv right?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

So many more reasons now why I'm not a friggin broncos fan. Thanks.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

Here's the thing about Denver: It looks like they have an absolute dynamite tandem at wideout and promising gunslinger of a quarterback. In many cases around the NFL, that's half of the championship puzzle right there. Yes they have work to do, especially on defense. But if it's one thing that separates them from us it's an owner who knows how to win, and knows when to step back and allow the people who truly know the game of football to take over.

Pat Bowlen saw a franchise that under Mike Shanahan had become stagnant, had aged and deteriorated on defense, and knew that it was time to make a change. With the Broncos there's a track record of success and willingness to shift course when the team has so clearly veered off course.

Inexplicably, Dan Snyder refuses to open his eyes to the fact that the same thing has been happening here. And there aren't any Lombardi trophies Vinny Cerrato can point to in his defense.