Brian Cushing

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'll change my name to ScudSmack for a week in your honor

I'm still not 100% sold on Oher. But I won't complain if we got him

Seeing how Vinny has stated he wants more draft picks. How feasible is it that we'll use the first and not trade down. If we've only got four then how does Vinny get more? Wouldn't it be safe to say we might trade a guy for a second rounder this year and a third next year? I can also see him trading down to get more picks. Is seven picks consisting of OT, C, OG, OLB, with a DB and or a DE sound right? Most of the posts and talking heads seem to agree that we all NEED these positions and this would make the most sense in getting them?

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Seeing how Vinny has stated he wants more draft picks. How feasible is it that we'll use the first and not trade down. If we've only got four then how does Vinny get more? Wouldn't it be safe to say we might trade a guy for a second rounder this year and a third next year? I can also see him trading down to get more picks. Is seven picks consisting of OT, C, OG, OLB, with a DB and or a DE sound right? Most of the posts and talking heads seem to agree that we all NEED these positions and this would make the most sense in getting them?

We would have to trade someone like Randle El or Moss to get any significant extra picks in the draft. Some have said Rogers or Landry in the recent past, but those guys contribute more than Randle El. I don't like trading down. The quality of the players goes to pot after the 2nd-3rd rounds. After that all you are getting is practice squad fodder for the most part. Of course you might get a couple keepers, but with our recent past in the draft I hghly doubt it.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

We would have to trade someone like Randle El or Moss to get any significant extra picks in the draft. Some have said Rogers or Landry in the recent past, but those guys contribute more than Randle El. I don't like trading down. The quality of the players goes to pot after the 2nd-3rd rounds. After that all you are getting is practice squad fodder for the most part. Of course you might get a couple keepers, but with our recent past in the draft I hghly doubt it.

Agreed Gus... for every Tom Brady to Chris Horton in the lower rounds there's a thousand... well, guys you can't even name cause they did jack squat. 1st round picks (and especially top 15), if you draft smart, should be franchise players, so by trading down in all likelihood you're just foregoing a franchise player IMO.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Seeing how Vinny has stated he wants more draft picks. How feasible is it that we'll use the first and not trade down. If we've only got four then how does Vinny get more? Wouldn't it be safe to say we might trade a guy for a second rounder this year and a third next year? I can also see him trading down to get more picks. Is seven picks consisting of OT, C, OG, OLB, with a DB and or a DE sound right? Most of the posts and talking heads seem to agree that we all NEED these positions and this would make the most sense in getting them?

Thus the speculation we will trade Moss or someone else to gain picks. At first the idea didn't seem realistic because who would we trade w/ the value of a 2nd rounder that we don't really need? The idea of trading Los for instance seems rather tarded being that we used the 1st round pick to acquire him and we would have to replace him w/ a quality starter (meaning either our 1st round pick - again - or pay someone a boatload through FA). But then I heard Moss as a possible trade and started to warm up to the idea. It's a risk because it means one of the new WR additions must produce for us in '09. I think i'm ok with taking that risk but i'm glad the coaches make the decision. Also heard Horton as a trade possibility, which a lot of Warpathers don't agree with evidently, but i think it makes sense if we're gonna have Los/Hall for starting corners and Landry/Springs for starting safeties (from what I understand Blache and the who's who really like Springs and want to retain him). Bottom line is a trade of Moss or Horton or both guys in a package deal to get an even higher pick seems like a good idea now IMO.

[Dirtbag59]

Mel Kiper has us picking Brian Orkapo (DE Texas)

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Mel Kiper has us picking Brian Orkapo (DE Texas)

Just saw that too... wonder how many time Mel will change his mind between now and reality day?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Mel Kiper has us picking Brian Orkapo (DE Texas)

Exactly!! And doesn't even have Ray Mauluga picked in the top 16, which if he's right we could have a chance for him (but we know Mel ain't right).

Mel Kiper: 2009 NFL mock draft - ESPN

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Thus the speculation we will trade Moss or someone else to gain picks. At first the idea didn't seem realistic because who would we trade w/ the value of a 2nd rounder that we don't really need? The idea of trading Los for instance seems rather tarded being that we used the 1st round pick to acquire him and we would have to replace him w/ a quality starter (meaning either our 1st round pick - again - or pay someone a boatload through FA). But then I heard Moss as a possible trade and started to warm up to the idea. It's a risk because it means one of the new WR additions must produce for us in '09. I think i'm ok with taking that risk but i'm glad the coaches make the decision. Also heard Horton as a trade possibility, which a lot of Warpathers don't agree with evidently, but i think it makes sense if we're gonna have Los/Hall for starting corners and Landry/Springs for starting safeties (from what I understand Blache and the who's who really like Springs and want to retain him). Bottom line is a trade of Moss or Horton or both guys in a package deal to get an even higher pick seems like a good idea now IMO.

1.) If we trade Moss, Cooley will be tripled covered all the time. Those two are our only threats and are usually double teamed. Plus we can't get rid of our best receiver going into Campbell's contract year. This is the year JC has to show this is his team and by taking away the best reciever we have and inserting a D.Thomas does not work well for him. (The only way i could see us being able to deal Moss would be a straight up trade for Boldin)

2.) Why trade Horton?? What do you think we will receive for him??

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

1.) If we trade Moss, Cooley will be tripled covered all the time. Those two are our only threats and are usually double teamed. Plus we can't get rid of our best receiver going into Campbell's contract year. This is the year JC has to show this is his team and by taking away the best reciever we have and inserting a D.Thomas does not work well for him. (The only way i could see us being able to deal Moss would be a straight up trade for Boldin)

2.) Why trade Horton?? What do you think we will receive for him??

There is risk w/ trading Moss because a young player has to step up big time. Personally, I wouldn't trade him and go get another WR who knows nothing about our system and has not worked w/ JC, so maybe it's a big risk but for a high 2nd round pick maybe it makes sense.

As to Horton a trade makes sense if 1) Springs restructures favorably and moves to FS for us where he should be less prone to injury and likely to play strong for 3 or so more years and 2) Los is retained and Hall signed 3) we can get at least a 3rd rounder out of the trade. Why? With a starting secondary of Los/Hall at CB and Landry/Springs at SS/FS I'd argue we'll be even better than the '08 secondary. And also there's a value aspect to trading a 6th round guy for a 3rd or 2nd round pick, say another talented guy for o or d line where we need real help. I'd argue the set-up leaves us pretty deep at safety because because Doughty and Moore will be back.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

There is risk w/ trading Moss because a young player has to step up big time. Personally, I wouldn't trade him and go get another WR who knows nothing about our system and has not worked w/ JC, so maybe it's a big risk but for a high 2nd round pick maybe it makes sense.

As to Horton a trade makes sense if 1) Springs restructures favorably and moves to FS for us where he should be less prone to injury and likely to play strong for 3 or so more years and 2) Los is retained and Hall signed 3) we can get at least a 3rd rounder out of the trade. Why? With a starting secondary of Los/Hall at CB and Landry/Springs at SS/FS I'd argue we'll be even better than the '08 secondary. And also there's a value aspect to trading a 6th round guy for a 3rd or 2nd round pick, say another talented guy for o or d line where we need real help. I'd argue the set-up leaves us pretty deep at safety because because Doughty and Moore will be back.

Springs does not restructure, he hasn't in the past and i dont see him doing us any favors.

Horton was our 7th round pick and i don't see any team giving us anything above a 4th for him.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Springs does not restructure, he hasn't in the past and i dont see him doing us any favors.

Horton was our 7th round pick and i don't see any team giving us anything above a 4th for him.

I've always said the same about Springs, and for that I think we need to give him the boot. My fear is Blache or Grey or someone is in love w/ Springs and just won't part w/ him.

Probably right about Horton too, and again if we cut Springs as we should then Horton has to be retained anyway.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Seeing how Vinny has stated he wants more draft picks. How feasible is it that we'll use the first and not trade down. If we've only got four then how does Vinny get more? Wouldn't it be safe to say we might trade a guy for a second rounder this year and a third next year? I can also see him trading down to get more picks. Is seven picks consisting of OT, C, OG, OLB, with a DB and or a DE sound right? Most of the posts and talking heads seem to agree that we all NEED these positions and this would make the most sense in getting them?

If we use the 13th overall pick (on Cushing or anyone else) and don't trade down, I would suspect it will be after Carlos Rogers has been traded for one or more picks. Not saying I want to see Carlos go (I'd rather keep him and trade down), but if we do draft at 13, that's how I think it will go down.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

If we use the 13th overall pick (on Cushing or anyone else) and don't trade down, I would suspect it will be after Carlos Rogers has been traded for one or more picks. Not saying I want to see Carlos go (I'd rather keep him and trade down), but if we do draft at 13, that's how I think it will go down.

Can u give some insight as to how the FO will replace Los if he's traded? Even if we sign Hall and keep Springs as a CB (seems irresponsible but i'll roll with it) we know we'll be short a starting corner for several games a year. Smoot starting even more? Use a pick or grab a FA?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Can u give some insight as to how the FO will replace Los if he's traded? Even if we sign Hall and keep Springs as a CB (seems irresponsible but i'll roll with it) we know we'll be short a starting corner for several games a year. Smoot starting even more? Use a pick or grab a FA?

I would suspect that's how it would go down. Smoot is bad. He stunk all year. I personally think we should cut Springs and not trade Carlos. However, if Carlos leaves, we may add another corner through FA, and we'll start Springs as long as he's healthy at the other corner slot next to Hall. If we do draft a corner, it shouldn't be early.

I don't really like this plan, but that's my speculation, for what it's worth.

This question should probably be in a draft thread, but how about this- what if we trade Carlos for a few picks, AND trade the 13th pick for more picks? We could go from 4 picks to 8 or 9 pretty quickly.