Marching Orders... Interesting Points

[Bill B]

One point that maybe some of the posters can give insight - with the Hogs of the glory years how many of them were drafted compared to being acquired via trade/free agency? If I remember correctly weren't some of the hogs actually undrafted pickups? Also, I remember when the Skins traded Jay Schroder for Jim Lachey - when that was announced I was estatic and knew we got a steal when we got an all pro lineman.

Now unfortunately in today's salary cap era I don't think you will ever see a trade like the Lachey one, but I think one area we need to focus on is to not only stockpile picks in hoping to find a dominant lineman, but we also should dedicate some resources to scouting and making sure if there are any undrafted lineman that have a chance to make an impact. Maybe just maybe we luck out on one or two linemen and solidy the rest through high draft picks and maybe one or two free agent pickups.

Also - as far as having patience through rebuilding seasons - I think a lot of us who are also Washington Capital fans saw what Ted Leonsis had to endure with the Caps but did not lose faith in the ownership. The Caps tried the free agency, big spending route by signing guys like Jagr to massive contracts but it didn't work out, so Leonsis understood that in order to create a long lasting quality team the best way is through the draft and adding a free agent or two. So he shed all his high priced talent - even acquiring some additional picks by doing so, and let his GM build his team through the draft. Leonsis understood that there would be some rough seasons but he also knew that if he let his GM stockpile young talent and then when the team got better they could add a good free agent or two (like Matty had mentioned in this thread earlier on how the Skins should go) than your chances to build a consistent winner get better and better as long as you have a good GM and get out of his way.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bill B

One point that maybe some of the posters can give insight - with the Hogs of the glory years how many of them were drafted compared to being acquired via trade/free agency? If I remember correctly weren't some of the hogs actually undrafted pickups? Also, I remember when the Skins traded Jay Schroder for Jim Lachey - when that was announced I was estatic and knew we got a steal when we got an all pro lineman.

Now unfortunately in today's salary cap era I don't think you will ever see a trade like the Lachey one, but I think one area we need to focus on is to not only stockpile picks in hoping to find a dominant lineman, but we also should dedicate some resources to scouting and making sure if there are any undrafted lineman that have a chance to make an impact. Maybe just maybe we luck out on one or two linemen and solidy the rest through high draft picks and maybe one or two free agent pickups.

Also - as far as having patience through rebuilding seasons - I think a lot of us who are also Washington Capital fans saw what Ted Leonsis had to endure with the Caps but did not lose faith in the ownership. The Caps tried the free agency, big spending route by signing guys like Jagr to massive contracts but it didn't work out, so Leonsis understood that in order to create a long lasting quality team the best way is through the draft and adding a free agent or two. So he shed all his high priced talent - even acquiring some additional picks by doing so, and let his GM build his team through the draft. Leonsis understood that there would be some rough seasons but he also knew that if he let his GM stockpile young talent and then when the team got better they could add a good free agent or two (like Matty had mentioned in this thread earlier on how the Skins should go) than your chances to build a consistent winner get better and better as long as you have a good GM and get out of his way.

If I'm correct Heyer was undrafted and a project when he came here.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Bill B

One point that maybe some of the posters can give insight - with the Hogs of the glory years how many of them were drafted compared to being acquired via trade/free agency? If I remember correctly weren't some of the hogs actually undrafted pickups? Also, I remember when the Skins traded Jay Schroder for Jim Lachey - when that was announced I was estatic and knew we got a steal when we got an all pro lineman.

http://www.thewarpath.net/506536-post7.html

Now unfortunately in today's salary cap era I don't think you will ever see a trade like the Lachey one, but I think one area we need to focus on is to not only stockpile picks in hoping to find a dominant lineman, but we also should dedicate some resources to scouting and making sure if there are any undrafted lineman that have a chance to make an impact. Maybe just maybe we luck out on one or two linemen and solidy the rest through high draft picks and maybe one or two free agent pickups.[/QUOTE]

Scouting is a concern I think I brought up two or three years ago, and I believe they actually made a lot of changes at the lower levels last spring/summer so we'll see if it pays off.

Also - as far as having patience through rebuilding seasons - I think a lot of us who are also Washington Capital fans saw what Ted Leonsis had to endure with the Caps but did not lose faith in the ownership. The Caps tried the free agency, big spending route by signing guys like Jagr to massive contracts but it didn't work out, so Leonsis understood that in order to create a long lasting quality team the best way is through the draft and adding a free agent or two. So he shed all his high priced talent - even acquiring some additional picks by doing so, and let his GM build his team through the draft. Leonsis understood that there would be some rough seasons but he also knew that if he let his GM stockpile young talent and then when the team got better they could add a good free agent or two (like Matty had mentioned in this thread earlier on how the Skins should go) than your chances to build a consistent winner get better and better as long as you have a good GM and get out of his way.

McPhee is phenomenal, and props to Leonsis. But he also "benefitted" from a lockout that sort of forced his hand.

[sportscurmudgeon]

1. The Over The Hill Gang was here under the regime of George Allen and not Joe Gibbs.


2. For those of you who argue that two dynamic wide receivers are needed in order to make a playoff run, please consider that the Redskins have now gone 32 straight games with the starting tandem of receivers as Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle-El and James Thrash. If anyone thinks that any of those three compare in any meaningful way to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, then you are probably ingesting an illegal substance.


3. It will be difficult for the team to "commit to the draft" in 2009 and use it to get younger and get stronger. The team has a total of 4 draft picks this year. They might get more if they get some compensatory picks, but other than that...


4. For the team to have the 2009 draft make meaningful contributions to getting younger, they will have to do something they did not do much of last year and that is to draft guys who can actually be put in uniform on Sundays and be allowed on the field for something other than Suicide Squad duty on kickoff coverage. Drafting 4 "projects" won't help all that much; they pretty much drafted a half-dozen of those last year.


5. For those who think that Danny Boy will read these kinds of stories/reports and have some kind of epiphany experience, please ask yourself why he might do that now when the same kinds of stories have been written for him to read and internalize for at least the last 5 years and maybe the last 8 years. To make this change in philosophy, Danny Boy will have to - wait for it - admit he has been wrong for the last ten years and that his entire approach to running the Redskins has been a failure. Please do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen; it would definitely be dangerous to your health.


6. I for one will NOT be surprised to see Joe Gibbs return to the Redskins yet one more time in some capacity - - perhaps even head coach once again - - if the Skins do not make the playoffs in either of the next two seasons.

[irish]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

1. The Over The Hill Gang was here under the regime of George Allen and not Joe Gibbs.


2. For those of you who argue that two dynamic wide receivers are needed in order to make a playoff run, please consider that the Redskins have now gone 32 straight games with the starting tandem of receivers as Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle-El and James Thrash. If anyone thinks that any of those three compare in any meaningful way to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, then you are probably ingesting an illegal substance.


3. It will be difficult for the team to "commit to the draft" in 2009 and use it to get younger and get stronger. The team has a total of 4 draft picks this year. They might get more if they get some compensatory picks, but other than that...


4. For the team to have the 2009 draft make meaningful contributions to getting younger, they will have to do something they did not do much of last year and that is to draft guys who can actually be put in uniform on Sundays and be allowed on the field for something other than Suicide Squad duty on kickoff coverage. Drafting 4 "projects" won't help all that much; they pretty much drafted a half-dozen of those last year.


5. For those who think that Danny Boy will read these kinds of stories/reports and have some kind of epiphany experience, please ask yourself why he might do that now when the same kinds of stories have been written for him to read and internalize for at least the last 5 years and maybe the last 8 years. To make this change in philosophy, Danny Boy will have to - wait for it - admit he has been wrong for the last ten years and that his entire approach to running the Redskins has been a failure. Please do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen; it would definitely be dangerous to your health.


6. I for one will NOT be surprised to see Joe Gibbs return to the Redskins yet one more time in some capacity - - perhaps even head coach once again - - if the Skins do not make the playoffs in either of the next two seasons.

I totally agree with #4. The Skins need to draft guys that can actually come in and play right away not in 4 years.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

http://www.thewarpath.net/506536-post7.html

Scouting is a concern I think I brought up two or three years ago, and I believe they actually made a lot of changes at the lower levels last spring/summer so we'll see if it pays off.

Great point. I seem to remember reading somewhere about a year ago that our scouts are amont the lowest-paid in the league. considering how much Snyder constantly spent on his players and coaches, it didnt make sense to me that we wouldnt "splurge" on the best scouts money could buy. seriously, theres no salary cap on the scouting department and i'm sure few if any lowerlevel scouts make anywhere near 6 figures. if we're willing to garauntee huge sums of money to clinton portis and randy thomas, why not lure some of new englands or phillys scouts by offering to pay them 20% more to come here?

Also, on an unrelated topic, why doesnt the salary cap relate only to players currently on a teams active roster? One would think both the owners and the NFLPA would benefit from a system where a guy like Portis or Thomas could be cut/traded to another team if:

1) the player still got the garaunted portion of their salary.
2) the team did not take a cap hit for a player no longer on the team.

Lets take Randy Thomas, for example. We are on the hook to pay him something like 13M more garaunteed, if i remember correctly. Whether he's on the team or not, theyre going to pay him the money. If we could cut him without a cap penalty, we could benefit ourselves by freeing up a roster spot and have more cash on hand to find his replacement. Since he would be cut with a garaunteed payout from us, he could take the money and immediately go work for another team. Its a win/win situation. I'm sure there must be some reason why the salary cap rules dont work this way... so what am i missing?

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Great point. I seem to remember reading somewhere about a year ago that our scouts are amont the lowest-paid in the league. considering how much Snyder constantly spent on his players and coaches, it didnt make sense to me that we wouldnt "splurge" on the best scouts money could buy. seriously, theres no salary cap on the scouting department and i'm sure few if any lowerlevel scouts make anywhere near 6 figures. if we're willing to garauntee huge sums of money to clinton portis and randy thomas, why not lure some of new englands or phillys scouts by offering to pay them 20% more to come here?

Also, on an unrelated topic, why doesnt the salary cap relate only to players currently on a teams active roster? One would think both the owners and the NFLPA would benefit from a system where a guy like Portis or Thomas could be cut/traded to another team if:

1) the player still got the garaunted portion of their salary.
2) the team did not take a cap hit for a player no longer on the team.

Lets take Randy Thomas, for example. We are on the hook to pay him something like 13M more garaunteed, if i remember correctly. Whether he's on the team or not, theyre going to pay him the money. If we could cut him without a cap penalty, we could benefit ourselves by freeing up a roster spot and have more cash on hand to find his replacement. Since he would be cut with a garaunteed payout from us, he could take the money and immediately go work for another team. Its a win/win situation. I'm sure there must be some reason why the salary cap rules dont work this way... so what am i missing?

BHA - I like your idea of stealing the other teams best scouting personal - I have never understood why Synder did not employ this strategy before.

Also - to anyone that may have insight - I remember that at one point in the past Bobby Bethard was being considered being brought back to be the teams GM but that Synder said he decided against it because of "salary" considerations - I have a hard time beliving this as he gave gobs of money to Gibbs and Spurrier and other assistant coaches and my belief is Bethard did not come back because Bethard did not want Synder having any major influence on player personal decision making - am I off base with this assumption or does any of the insiders on this site have any info on why Bethard was not brought back?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Bill B

One point that maybe some of the posters can give insight - with the Hogs of the glory years how many of them were drafted compared to being acquired via trade/free agency? If I remember correctly weren't some of the hogs actually undrafted pickups? .....

IMO when you sign an undrafted rookie, that is as good as drafting them. If you pick another teams cut player that to me is a free agent.
10 Hogs were original Redskins
4 were not.


Drafted Hogs
Mark May drafted 1st round
Russ Drimm drafted 3rd round (what a steal)
R. McKenzie drafted 11th round
Ed Simmons drafted 6th round
Mark Schlreth drafted 10th round
Don Warren drafted 4th round

Undrafted Rookie Signings
Jeff Bostic
Joe Jacoby
George Stark
Fred Dean

Came from Other teams
Jim Lachey
R.C. Thielemann
Ken Huff
Rick Doc Walker

Either way the Beathard/Casserly FO did a great job of player evaluations.