obama is taking my $

[djnemo65]

Right, that's what it is, fashion.

I know you like to vilify and demonize anyone whose views differ from yours, describing them alternatively as pierced slackers, loitering homosexuals, white flag waving francophiles, fornicating Europeans, or in this case, pro dead fetus dissimulators, but seriously, can't you consider the possibility that not sharing your values doesn't automatically make someone morally corrupt?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Right, that's what it is, fashion.

I know you like to vilify and demonize anyone whose views differ from yours, describing them alternatively as pierced slackers, loitering homosexuals, white flag waving francophiles, fornicating Europeans, or in this case, pro dead fetus dissimulators, but seriously, can't you consider the possibility that not sharing your values doesn't automatically make someone morally corrupt?

So who did you steal that quote from? It's baseless in application to 70.

Can't YOU consider that to pro-lifers in the world they consider abortion MURDER. THAT'S MURDER. Again I am not making that argument but it seems pretty ignorant of the pro-choicers who rarely consider that they aren't arguing with a side about taxes, or off-shore drilling. You are arguing with people who think you are ok with killing other people. Humans tend to get somewhat angry about murder so it stands to reason that they'd think pretty little of pro-lifers since they consider you tanatamount to murderers.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

So who did you steal that quote from? It's baseless in application to 70.

Can't YOU consider that to pro-lifers in the world they consider abortion MURDER. THAT'S MURDER. Again I am not making that argument but it seems pretty ignorant of the pro-choicers who rarely consider that they aren't arguing with a side about taxes, or off-shore drilling. You are arguing with people who think you are ok with killing other people. Humans tend to get somewhat angry about murder so it stands to reason that they'd think pretty little of pro-lifers since they consider you tanatamount to murderers.

??? That was all based on stuff that Chip has said at various times. Not made up, does apply. And dude, are you accusing me of plagiarism? I don’t know if you are trying to be cute or whatever but don't ever under any circumstances accuse me of that again. Maybe I am overreacting but that's something I take very seriously, especially on a message board where my original words are the only things I exist through.

My only issue was with chip imputing dishonesty to all those who claim to struggle with the abortion issue, as if he knows what they really think. As if you can’t support it unconditionally as law while still harboring personal reservations. One can debate the coherence of this as policy, I just don’t think it’s necessary to take it a step further and charge dishonesty. Anyway, regarding the larger issue, while I am obviously pro-choice for reasons I won't expound upon, I have always tried to treat those who disagree with me on this issue with respect, so I think you've got me all wrong again.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Right, that's what it is, fashion.

I know you like to vilify and demonize anyone whose views differ from yours, describing them alternatively as pierced slackers, loitering homosexuals, white flag waving francophiles, fornicating Europeans, or in this case, pro dead fetus dissimulators, but seriously, can't you consider the possibility that not sharing your values doesn't automatically make someone morally corrupt?

This is how one should post. This one gets a happy face. At least someone has been paying attention.

Our worldviews are just at odds. Your concept of morality is like a sand dune, ever shifting and unpermanent, while mine is more like a rock. It galls you that someone will actually say something is absolutely wrong, especially in the sexual realm. The reason is that God is at the center of my existence and your own false sense of yourself is at the center of yours. It's all very simple, really.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

This is how one should post. This one gets a happy face. At least someone has been paying attention.

Our worldviews are just at odds. Your concept of morality is like a sand dune, ever shifting and unpermanent, while mine is more like a rock. It galls you that someone will actually say something is absolutely wrong, especially in the sexual realm. The reason is that God is at the center of my existence and your own false sense of yourself is at the center of yours. It's all very simple, really.

I do pay attention to everything you write, and find you to be erudite and well-read. One of my favorite posters, at least most of the time.

I believe your God to be illusory and live a lifestyle in accordance with that. I consider my sense of self to be, far from false, the only thing I know for sure to be true. I reside in Japan - the world capitol of godless hedonism - and live an accordant lifestyle, one that would make Jesus cry. My morality has been constructed on a case by case basis. There are things I find to be absolutely wrong but all of them involve harming another person, and none of them involve consensual sex. You get this, and I get you. We disagree, but that's not a problem.

I just don't like your tendency towards judgment, to dichotomize the world into the “decent people” on one hand, and those who disagree with you – the amoral shadow lurkers – on the other. Or, in today’s case, to call a group of people liars for claiming to not, like, be thrilled about abortion. As if you know what they really think! I live life with the assumption that most people are fundamentally decent and you don’t. You instead often remind me of a Gran Torino Eastwood, snarling at the rest of the world to get off your porch while ruthlessly judging anyone you perceive to be different than you.

Respectfully,

[dmek25]

good post dj

[FRPLG]

Note: this is why I don't discuss my views on abortion much. It's one issue no one will agree on and emotions get reasonably hot over it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Note: this is why I don't discuss my views on abortion much. It's one issue no one will agree on and emotions get reasonably hot over it.

This is why I never made it an Understanding the Issues thread during the campaign.

I believe that 12th's point was that people (most people) aren't all "Yay! Let's go get an abortion!" It was that those who are pro-choice support the option to get an abortion. But I think most that do would rather not ever get one.

[dmek25]

i think what he was referring to is that most people favor the right to choose, not the actual disposing of a fetus. i don't think most of us are qualified to actually tell a woman what she can, and cannot do, with her own body. everyone has different circumstances on how they ended up pregnant

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i think what he was referring to is that most people favor the right to choose, not the actual disposing of a fetus. i don't think most of us are qualified to actually tell a woman what she can, and cannot do, with her own body. everyone has different circumstances on how they ended up pregnant

Totally true. I knew this girl that got pregnant from riding a tractor.

You can't support a women's right to "dispose of the fetus" and also feel sorry for the fetus. Logic won't allow for it.

[4mrusmc]

I think it is abit ironic that liberals are quick to defend a murderer's right to life. A terrorist's right to American due process (closing down Gitmo). And, the showing of a video montage of American service men killing enemy combatants on the battle field, while God Bless America is playing. But, out of the other side of there ass, they will not defend the rights of an innocent fetus.

Me personally, I think abortion is okay in cases of rape, incest, and harm to the mother's life.

[saden1]

You know what I find ironic? The fact that conservatives talk about freedom, democracy and liberty yet are willing to hold people/suspects in prison indefinitely without trial. They're willing to toss principles of freedom and the right to self-determination when a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy. They're OK with the killing that comes with war and civilian "collateral damage."

Abortion is OK so long as a woman makes the choice to abort before the 5 and half month mark.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by saden1

You know what I find ironic? The fact that conservatives talk about freedom, democracy and liberty yet are willing to hold people/suspects in prison indefinitely without trial. They're willing to toss principles of freedom and the right to self-determination when a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy. They're OK with the killing that comes with war and civilian "collateral damage."

Abortion is OK so long as a woman makes the choice to abort before the 5 and half month mark.

So you are "for" abortion, correct?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

So you are "for" abortion, correct?

I am for people to have thee ability to exercise the right to abort an unwanted pregnancy. The only thing I would add to equation is reasonable and timely decision making.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

You know what I find ironic? The fact that conservatives talk about freedom, democracy and liberty yet are willing to hold people/suspects in prison indefinitely without trial. They're willing to toss principles of freedom and the right to self-determination when a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy. They're OK with the killing that comes with war and civilian "collateral damage."

Abortion is OK so long as a woman makes the choice to abort before the 5 and half month mark.

I've got no problem holding suspected terrorists/murders, especially when those that get released go out and kill again. Let's not pretend we're holding upstanding and decent people at GITMO. We do agree that they shouldn't be held indefinitely, they should've been tried by military tribunals and formally imprisioned or executed already. I have no answer why the Bush Administration didn't tackle this more aggressively.

FOXNews.com - Bomber's Martyrdom Tape Renews Fears Over Consequences of Closing Gitmo - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

I've got no problem with a woman's self-determination if she wants to terminate her own life, have at it. However the innocent and defensless life inside her has rights to freedom and self-determination too...correct? We just disagree on the definition of life.

From a government perspective, IMO the abortion issue should be decided by individual states with third trimester abortion being completely outlawed by the Fed. I'm not concerned about the counseling services, people can say what they want as long as my tax dollars aren't funding actual abortions, it's not my place to repress someone's opinion. We'll all eventually answer to the "Man" when our time is up.

P.S. F GB, and I hope you didn't have to work too late