Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Normally, Campbell would be a free agent in 2010, but if theres no salary cap, he doesnt have enough "tenure" in the NFL to become one. he would only have 5 years of experience instead of the required 6. Campell is still on his rookie contract and because of that, hes one of the lowest-paid starting QBs in the league. we'll have no financial obligation to move him next season (assuming my understanding of the rules surrounding an uncapped year are correct). My biggest fear is that when Campbell fails this year, he'll hurt his image so much that his trade value plummets.

Campbell did a decent job this year, considering hes a horrible fit for our offense. his trade value will likely never be higher. He would be an excellent and cheap alternative for the Titans, Bears, and Vikings. Unless coaches see something in him that makes them SURE he will adjust to the WCO and be our undisputed Franchise QB, the smart thing to do would be to trade him now.

Otherwise, we'll be kicking ourselves in the butt for not moving him like we were with Patrick Ramsey. Miami was offering us a 1st rounder for him and we werent sold on him in our offense. By holding on to him, we confirmed our fears about him and received next to no compensation from Denver when he left. If someone offers us a 2nd rounder (or more) for Campbell, we would be fools not to take it and acquire Leftwhich. If the OP is correct and he wants to play here, he would be a decent stop-gap while we groom Brennan.

So you're willing to build up the team from scratch and go into full-on rebuilding mode next season? I don't think that's going to happen.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you're willing to build up the team from scratch and go into full-on rebuilding mode next season? I don't think that's going to happen.

Trading Campbell now isnt indicative of full-blown rebuilding in my opinion (even though rebuilding is what we need to do). I dont think Campbell will ever succeed in the WCO (see my sig). Keeping Campbell does nothing more than nullify our ability to receive compensation when he leaves. The Redskins wont be successful in 2009. Its just not going to happen. I would rather get draft picks and have something to help us in 2010 and beyond than hold on to campbell another year.

That said, youre right - its not going to happen. As long as Danny and Vinny are making the decisions, this team will never achieve any real success, as they are both unwilling to look beyond "next season."

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Trading Campbell now isnt indicative of full-blown rebuilding in my opinion (even though rebuilding is what we need to do). I dont think Campbell will ever succeed in the WCO (see my sig). Keeping Campbell does nothing more than nullify our ability to receive compensation when he leaves. The Redskins wont be successful in 2009. Its just not going to happen. I would rather get draft picks and have something to help us in 2010 and beyond than hold on to campbell another year.

That said, youre right - its not going to happen. As long as Danny and Vinny are making the decisions, this team will never achieve any real success, as they are both unwilling to look beyond "next season."

So who would we get at QB if we were to trade Campbell? Do we throw Brennan into the fire? If so then we better make sure our offensive line is better this upcoming season. I do agree that we need to go into full blown rebuilding mode. The problem is that the team won't take chances in playing rookie players. I think if our defense was an elite defense, we could afford going with a new QB (also a better offensive line). I think the mistakes done by Vinny, Snyder, and Gibbs are keeping this team from looking beyond next season. Also, I think our fan base (and ownership) lacks patience to go through a year or two of flat out losing seasons as we rebuild.

[Trample the Elderly]

I'm fine with rebuilding. If we lose all but two games (Dallas) next year and get a high draft pick then I could stomach the pain.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I'm fine with rebuilding. If we lose all but two games (Dallas) next year and get a high draft pick then I could stomach the pain.

Unfortunately, life in the Warpath would be miserable with the pissed off threads and the VC/Snyder hate posts would quadruple.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Unfortunately, life in the Warpath would be miserable with the pissed off threads and the VC/Snyder hate posts would quadruple.

The worse part is Snyder would claim that Vinny is still "learning" even after a 2-14 season and he see's nothing but UPSIDE in his defacto GM.

[mvb2328]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

The worse part is Snyder would claim that Vinny is still "learning" even after a 2-14 season and he see's nothing but UPSIDE in his defacto GM.

vinny sucks!!! what ever happened to the bruce allen rumor???

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I'm fine with rebuilding. If we lose all but two games (Dallas) next year and get a high draft pick then I could stomach the pain.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

You're right. We know how to beat Dallass at least half of the time and Filth-a-delphia most of the time. I'd like to beat the NJ Giants.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I'm fine with rebuilding. If we lose all but two games (Dallas) next year and get a high draft pick then I could stomach the pain.

Actually, if there were ever a year to be bad, its 2009. Since 2010 will be the last year of the CBA, certain rules go into effect. One of them is that the best 8 teams in the NFL (teams that dont make the playoffs or who are eliminated from the playoffs wild-card weekend) are forbidden from signing free agents until the lose an equal number of their own. For example, if we wanted to sign in 2 free agents, we would have to release two of our own first... and its not like we could just sign them back later on... other than the draft, we'd be extremely limited in what we were able to do to upgrade our team.

Also, Ive also read conflicting reports about whether there will be a draft in 2011... if theres not, i can see an increased number of juniors entering the draft in 2010 to avoid the uncertainty in whatever would happen in 2011. So by playing poorly in 2009, we would be in a much better position to acquire talent in 2010 - the last year with a draft. It would put us in a much better position long-term.

Just to clarify, i'm in no way advocating that we deliberatly tank the 2009 season. I just think the dynamics of the expiring CBA may make this the best time to focus on the future, instead of constantly trying to patch this team together with aging vets, like we've done for the past decade.

On a side note, If theres not a draft in 2011, perhaps we can trade some of our 2011 picks to a team that hasnt done their research

[RedskinMike]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Actually, if there were ever a year to be bad, its 2009. Since 2010 will be the last year of the CBA, certain rules go into effect. One of them is that the best 8 teams in the NFL (teams that dont make the playoffs or who are eliminated from the playoffs wild-card weekend) are forbidden from signing free agents until the lose an equal number of their own. For example, if we wanted to sign in 2 free agents, we would have to release two of our own first... and its not like we could just sign them back later on... other than the draft, we'd be extremely limited in what we were able to do to upgrade our team.

Also, Ive also read conflicting reports about whether there will be a draft in 2011... if theres not, i can see an increased number of juniors entering the draft in 2010 to avoid the uncertainty in whatever would happen in 2011. So by playing poorly in 2009, we would be in a much better position to acquire talent in 2010 - the last year with a draft. It would put us in a much better position long-term.

Just to clarify, i'm in no way advocating that we deliberatly tank the 2009 season. I just think the dynamics of the expiring CBA may make this the best time to focus on the future, instead of constantly trying to patch this team together with aging vets, like we've done for the past decade.

On a side note, If theres not a draft in 2011, perhaps we can trade some of our 2011 picks to a team that hasnt done their research

the only way there is no draft is if there is a lockout

[Eknox]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I'm fine with rebuilding. If we lose all but two games (Dallas) next year and get a high draft pick then I could stomach the pain.

Gotta love it....how bout them Cowgirls!!!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So who would we get at QB if we were to trade Campbell? Do we throw Brennan into the fire? If so then we better make sure our offensive line is better this upcoming season. I do agree that we need to go into full blown rebuilding mode. The problem is that the team won't take chances in playing rookie players. I think if our defense was an elite defense, we could afford going with a new QB (also a better offensive line). I think the mistakes done by Vinny, Snyder, and Gibbs are keeping this team from looking beyond next season. Also, I think our fan base (and ownership) lacks patience to go through a year or two of flat out losing seasons as we rebuild.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Trading Campbell without a better solution at QB in-house would set the franchise back 3-4 years.

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

However, under no circumstances would I want to throw Brennan in the fire (unless he just lit it up in training camp/pre-season). Brennan is a project-QB, but a good one. I think he could be ready to start in 2010 or 2011, assuming we address the offensive line.

In the context of this post, Leftwich is a viable option to replace Campbell for a year or two. he will be one of the cheapest free agents on the market (which is important, not only because of our cap situation, but also because rumor has it snyder is going to be stingy this off-season), he has some familiarity to the WCO (even though he wasnt that great in it), and he wants to be here. If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

leftwich wouldnt be my first choice to replace Campbell (that would be Jeff Garcia), but if we really think Brennan can be a baller down the road, theres no reason to invest big dollars in Garcia. I'd also look at Chris Simms, but i think he might only be an RFA.

Please understand, I don't hate Campbell, but hes a horrible fit for the WCO. I think Campbell is hard-working enough to try his best to adapt to the offense, and he may do an "ok" job, but he'll never reach his potential here and our offense will never reach its potential with him calling the shots. Its just a bad match. Campbell would thrive anywhere that relies on a power running game and Coryell-esque passing game. I mentioned the Bears, Titans, and Vikings becuase they all run that type of system and they all need a long-term answer at quarterback. If the CBA expires as expected, Campbells new team would have him under contract for 2 years at a reasonable price, and another year or two where they could tag him (assuming a new CBA is signed with similar rules) - plenty of time to know for sure if they wanted to sign him to a long term deal or not. IMO, this is the ideal time to trade Campbell.

I know almost no one will agree with me, so i'll get off my now.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

Campbell would thrive anywhere that relies on a power running game and Coryell-esque passing game.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

Off the top of my head, both John Madden and Clinton Portis think Brennan is going to be a baller some day. He is a QB hand-picked by Zorn so Zorn saw something in him.

As to your Timmy Chang comparison, its insulting. From wikipedia:

Colt Brennan

Brennan holds the NCAA D-I record for most touchdown passes in a single season with 58, as well as 30 other NCAA Division I FBS records.

Timmy Chang

Chang currently holds the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision all-time interception record with 80,

Chang also doesnt have the height to be an NFL QB. If not for his injury, Brennan was slated in most mocks to go in round 3; 4 at the latest. Chang was never slated to be drafted by anyone. yes, Brennan was in a very QB-friendly system. yes he has a long way to go, but the kid is a good fit for our offense. He may not be the long-term answer for us at QB, but then again, he may be. Campbell has already proved that he isnt.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

They are general statements yes, but no one who watched him play can disagree with these statements unless they want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Unless someone wants to watch every QBs eyes every play and then compare how many times Campbell stares down vs others, of course it cant be backed up by evidence... but the fact still remains that Campbell almost always stares down his guy. Its not the exception with him, its the rule. He has improved some in his decision making, yes, but his release has barely improved at all. as far as leftwhich being "better" than Campbell... its debateable. neither of them can be our franchise WCO QB. However, if we traded Campbell and went with Leftwich, we would atleast have compensation in extra draft picks.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

Campbell never had time to develop in that system - but he was a much better fit for it. Our offense as a whole suffered dramatically by the organizational structure here under Gibbs. It was chaos. Gibbs was in charge of the running game, Saunders the passing; Gibbs always made Campbell wait until the last second before giving Campbell the play; etc... all of that really hurt Campbell. if we had kept a similar offense but actually had someone competent running things, our offense (and Campbell) would have been much better in 2009.