Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So who would we get at QB if we were to trade Campbell? Do we throw Brennan into the fire? If so then we better make sure our offensive line is better this upcoming season. I do agree that we need to go into full blown rebuilding mode. The problem is that the team won't take chances in playing rookie players. I think if our defense was an elite defense, we could afford going with a new QB (also a better offensive line). I think the mistakes done by Vinny, Snyder, and Gibbs are keeping this team from looking beyond next season. Also, I think our fan base (and ownership) lacks patience to go through a year or two of flat out losing seasons as we rebuild.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Trading Campbell without a better solution at QB in-house would set the franchise back 3-4 years.

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

However, under no circumstances would I want to throw Brennan in the fire (unless he just lit it up in training camp/pre-season). Brennan is a project-QB, but a good one. I think he could be ready to start in 2010 or 2011, assuming we address the offensive line.

In the context of this post, Leftwich is a viable option to replace Campbell for a year or two. he will be one of the cheapest free agents on the market (which is important, not only because of our cap situation, but also because rumor has it snyder is going to be stingy this off-season), he has some familiarity to the WCO (even though he wasnt that great in it), and he wants to be here. If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

leftwich wouldnt be my first choice to replace Campbell (that would be Jeff Garcia), but if we really think Brennan can be a baller down the road, theres no reason to invest big dollars in Garcia. I'd also look at Chris Simms, but i think he might only be an RFA.

Please understand, I don't hate Campbell, but hes a horrible fit for the WCO. I think Campbell is hard-working enough to try his best to adapt to the offense, and he may do an "ok" job, but he'll never reach his potential here and our offense will never reach its potential with him calling the shots. Its just a bad match. Campbell would thrive anywhere that relies on a power running game and Coryell-esque passing game. I mentioned the Bears, Titans, and Vikings becuase they all run that type of system and they all need a long-term answer at quarterback. If the CBA expires as expected, Campbells new team would have him under contract for 2 years at a reasonable price, and another year or two where they could tag him (assuming a new CBA is signed with similar rules) - plenty of time to know for sure if they wanted to sign him to a long term deal or not. IMO, this is the ideal time to trade Campbell.

I know almost no one will agree with me, so i'll get off my now.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

Campbell would thrive anywhere that relies on a power running game and Coryell-esque passing game.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

Off the top of my head, both John Madden and Clinton Portis think Brennan is going to be a baller some day. He is a QB hand-picked by Zorn so Zorn saw something in him.

As to your Timmy Chang comparison, its insulting. From wikipedia:

Colt Brennan

Brennan holds the NCAA D-I record for most touchdown passes in a single season with 58, as well as 30 other NCAA Division I FBS records.

Timmy Chang

Chang currently holds the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision all-time interception record with 80,

Chang also doesnt have the height to be an NFL QB. If not for his injury, Brennan was slated in most mocks to go in round 3; 4 at the latest. Chang was never slated to be drafted by anyone. yes, Brennan was in a very QB-friendly system. yes he has a long way to go, but the kid is a good fit for our offense. He may not be the long-term answer for us at QB, but then again, he may be. Campbell has already proved that he isnt.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

They are general statements yes, but no one who watched him play can disagree with these statements unless they want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Unless someone wants to watch every QBs eyes every play and then compare how many times Campbell stares down vs others, of course it cant be backed up by evidence... but the fact still remains that Campbell almost always stares down his guy. Its not the exception with him, its the rule. He has improved some in his decision making, yes, but his release has barely improved at all. as far as leftwhich being "better" than Campbell... its debateable. neither of them can be our franchise WCO QB. However, if we traded Campbell and went with Leftwich, we would atleast have compensation in extra draft picks.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

Campbell never had time to develop in that system - but he was a much better fit for it. Our offense as a whole suffered dramatically by the organizational structure here under Gibbs. It was chaos. Gibbs was in charge of the running game, Saunders the passing; Gibbs always made Campbell wait until the last second before giving Campbell the play; etc... all of that really hurt Campbell. if we had kept a similar offense but actually had someone competent running things, our offense (and Campbell) would have been much better in 2009.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Unless someone wants to watch every QBs eyes every play and then compare how many times Campbell stares down vs others, of course it cant be backed up by evidence... but the fact still remains that Campbell almost always stares down his guy.

While I do admire your ability to look at both sides here, you still have to leave this opinion out of the debate because 1) It IS in dispute and 2) it simply can't be proven, or even supported by anything.

You're best off moving forward without this claim, I think.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Off the top of my head, both John Madden and Clinton Portis think Brennan is going to be a baller some day. He is a QB hand-picked by Zorn so Zorn saw something in him.

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

As to your Timmy Chang comparison, its insulting.

You may want to fully read the wiki on Chang again. The comparison is far from insulting. Both played for U of Hawaii in the June Jones offensive system, which creates Passing Stat monsters. Chang still holds several NCAA passing records (INTs, Offensive yards, Career Passing, and is third in total TDs). Chang was on NFL rosters for two years before being out (probably the same for CB) and picking up with the CFL. Chang is 6' 1", CB is 6' 3", those two inches make a difference if both were strictly pocket passers, but Chang is/was much more mobile than CB.

Also it doesn't matter where someone is slated to go in a mock draft, it's where they actually go that matters. Talking heads do mock drafts, guys on the Internet do mock drafts, NFL personnel folks actually draft. 31 other teams didn't see fit to take Brennan ahead of where he went. So 31 other sets of NFL personnel folks didn't see too much in him either. The WCO is not a fit for a QB with a poor release, below-average to weak NFL arm, that appears to makes some poor decisions on the NFL level.

He may not be the long-term answer for us at QB, but then again, he may be. Campbell has already proved that he isnt.

So Campbell improving yearly and increasing his performance from '07 to '08 with an inferior OL "proves" he isn't the guy for our system. The jury may still be out but the indicators appear to be that JC will be a solid, but not superstar, NFL QB.

They are general statements yes, but no one who watched him play can disagree with these statements unless they want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

I disagree with your statements because IMO they're wrong and you have no evidence or stats to show you're right. My stats (improved QB rating, only 6 INTs, 62% completions) favor my position over yours. I watched JC play and I have a completely different impression than you. You are taking the typical fan route, something's wrong, blame the QB. Maybe the protection broke down, maybe the sub 5'10" receivers weren't open, maybe JC's been coached to not make an overly aggressive play resulting in a turn-over. If you believe Jim Zorn is such a great QB evaluator that he "saw something" in CB, doesn't it make sense that if JC was "locking on" to receivers and was a "slow decision maker" that Zorn would've mentioned this (he is pretty forthcoming) or he would've went to Collins, or the Skins would be actively shopping JC for picks?

I don't remember seeing too many on this site making the comments about "slow decision making" & "locking on" when the Skins were 6-2.

Campbell never had time to develop in that system - but he was a much better fit for it.

In the Coryell / Gibbs type system you must be an accurate downfield passer, from what we have seen out of JC, that isn't his strong-suit.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

Didn't Pioli take Brady with a 6th? Where is Brady now?!! Sorry, just wanted to get that out there before it was inevitably brought up. Anyhow, I must admit that Colt has grown on me (maybe because his ugly release reminds me of one of my favorite QBS, Rernie Kosar), though I don't think he's quite ready. I think, from all I've seen and discussed with others, he does have potential to be a pretty good NFL QB.

I think it's a bit unfair to just compare him to Chang simply because they went to the same school. It's like comparing Cushing to Sartz or Peyton Manning to Tee Martin (not exactly, I know).

All kidding aside, Colt is solid with (wait for it Dirtbag) Upside. Still, the focus should be on Campbell who is, and probably always will be, a better NFL QB.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think it's a bit unfair to just compare him to Chang simply because they went to the same school. It's like comparing Cushing to Sartz or Peyton Manning to Tee Martin (not exactly, I know).

I'm comparing him to Chang because they are (IMO) both system QBs with poor fundamentals who don't have NFL level arms or skills.

Still, the focus should be on Campbell who is, and probably always will be, a better NFL QB.

Agree 1000%. Getting rid of Campbell and bringing in Leftwich as a stop-gap, with the thought that Brennan will be "the man" would be extremely foolish and set the Skins back a minimum of 3-4 years. If by some miracle, Brennan develops and due to injury or whatever gets his chance (ala Brady) he's costing next to nothing and we won't have to pay him a large contract until he's brought a significant amount of wins to DC.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

You may want to fully read the wiki on Chang again. The comparison is far from insulting. Both played for U of Hawaii in the June Jones offensive system, which creates Passing Stat monsters. Chang still holds several NCAA passing records (INTs, Offensive yards, Career Passing, and is third in total TDs). Chang was on NFL rosters for two years before being out (probably the same for CB) and picking up with the CFL. Chang is 6' 1", CB is 6' 3", those two inches make a difference if both were strictly pocket passers, but Chang is/was much more mobile than CB.

Also it doesn't matter where someone is slated to go in a mock draft, it's where they actually go that matters. Talking heads do mock drafts, guys on the Internet do mock drafts, NFL personnel folks actually draft. 31 other teams didn't see fit to take Brennan ahead of where he went. So 31 other sets of NFL personnel folks didn't see too much in him either. The WCO is not a fit for a QB with a poor release, below-average to weak NFL arm, that appears to makes some poor decisions on the NFL level.

So Campbell improving yearly and increasing his performance from '07 to '08 with an inferior OL "proves" he isn't the guy for our system. The jury may still be out but the indicators appear to be that JC will be a solid, but not superstar, NFL QB.

I disagree with your statements because IMO they're wrong and you have no evidence or stats to show you're right. My stats (improved QB rating, only 6 INTs, 62% completions) favor my position over yours. I watched JC play and I have a completely different impression than you. You are taking the typical fan route, something's wrong, blame the QB. Maybe the protection broke down, maybe the sub 5'10" receivers weren't open, maybe JC's been coached to not make an overly aggressive play resulting in a turn-over. If you believe Jim Zorn is such a great QB evaluator that he "saw something" in CB, doesn't it make sense that if JC was "locking on" to receivers and was a "slow decision maker" that Zorn would've mentioned this (he is pretty forthcoming) or he would've went to Collins, or the Skins would be actively shopping JC for picks?

I don't remember seeing too many on this site making the comments about "slow decision making" & "locking on" when the Skins were 6-2.

In the Coryell / Gibbs type system you must be an accurate downfield passer, from what we have seen out of JC, that isn't his strong-suit.

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

If thats true then that was a HUGE mistake that ended up costing us more then most people realize. It was during that draft where Ben Patrick (TE Deleware), a guy projected as a 3rd rounder by Mayock was available when we picked Palmer. Now one year later we got a Tight End that can barely get on the field while Patrick is catching TD's and two point conversions in the playoffs for the Cardinals.

Maybe that was just Gibbs picking his guys but I doubt Palmer was the best player available even by the standards in which our front office evaluates players.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

In the context of this post, Leftwich is a viable option to replace Campbell for a year or two. he will be one of the cheapest free agents on the market (which is important, not only because of our cap situation, but also because rumor has it snyder is going to be stingy this off-season), he has some familiarity to the WCO (even though he wasnt that great in it), and he wants to be here. If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

But don't you see the big picture here? People wrote Leftwich off because of non-measurable evidences such as: "Slow release, slow decision making, non-system quarterback". None of those things are actually true in Leftwich's case (well, slow release is true, but that's made irrelivant by other things he does well). But you are invoking the same non-measureable arguments against Campbell as you are dismissing in support of Leftwich.

Leftwich is no better or worse of a decision-maker than Campbell is, who is no better or worse a decision maker than Jeff Garcia is. It's all perception based on a number of factors.

Thankfully, you can measure QB improvement, and all three of the aforementioned guys kept improving from the 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th year in the NFL. The narratives are very different though, thanks entirely to scouting error.

One guy went on to develop into a pro bowler, then his stock dropped, bounced around the league, and resurfaced. Another guy was developing, had his development abruptly ended, bounced around the league and now his stock is on the upswing. The last guy has yet to be replaced by his current team, but the fan base is split down the middle on his future and the front office is hesitant to pull the trigger.

Shouldn't we worry about getting it right with our own guy before trying to pick up a career reclaimation project?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But don't you see the big picture here? People wrote Leftwich off because of non-measurable evidences such as: "Slow release, slow decision making, non-system quarterback". None of those things are actually true in Leftwich's case (well, slow release is true, but that's made irrelivant by other things he does well). But you are invoking the same non-measureable arguments against Campbell as you are dismissing in support of Leftwich.

Leftwich is no better or worse of a decision-maker than Campbell is, who is no better or worse a decision maker than Jeff Garcia is. It's all perception based on a number of factors.

Thankfully, you can measure QB improvement, and all three of the aforementioned guys kept improving from the 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th year in the NFL. The narratives are very different though, thanks entirely to scouting error.

One guy went on to develop into a pro bowler, then his stock dropped, bounced around the league, and resurfaced. Another guy was developing, had his development abruptly ended, bounced around the league and now his stock is on the upswing. The last guy has yet to be replaced by his current team, but the fan base is split down the middle on his future and the front office is hesitant to pull the trigger.

Shouldn't we worry about getting it right with our own guy before trying to pick up a career reclaimation project?

I do see the big picture, which is why I want to move Campbell now.

You assume Campbell has the potential to become a franchise WCO quarterback. Everyone in the NFL was ridiculing the skins for bringing in Zorn last year because everyone realized that Campbell is a horrible fit for the offense Zorn would want to run. Dragging this thing out with Campbell is going to get us nowhere. We'll have a serviceable QB for a year, maybe two, but then we'll have to let him walk as a free agent and receive no compensation in return. Campbells trade value will never be higher than it is now. he's worth more to us as a 2nd round pick than he is as a 1-2 year starter; especially when we could bring in Leftwich (who couldnt be any worse) and have a 2nd round pick to use on a lineman.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I do see the big picture, which is why I want to move Campbell now.

You assume Campbell has the potential to become a franchise WCO quarterback. Everyone in the NFL was ridiculing the skins for bringing in Zorn last year because everyone realized that Campbell is a horrible fit for the offense Zorn would want to run. Dragging this thing out with Campbell is going to get us nowhere. We'll have a serviceable QB for a year, maybe two, but then we'll have to let him walk as a free agent and receive no compensation in return. Campbells trade value will never be higher than it is now. he's worth more to us as a 2nd round pick than he is as a 1-2 year starter; especially when we could bring in Leftwich (who couldnt be any worse) and have a 2nd round pick to use on a lineman.

No one with any credibility was saying anything about the Zorn hire outside of "well, they ran a solid process, so we'll see if they were right".

Now, if I go out on a limb and pretend you are right: If we find someone willing to deal a 2nd rounder for Campbell, that's a pretty good indication that we missed something in his valuation, right? Matt Schaub was worth two second rounders, and that was a buyers market based mostly on his prospects, not his production.

If we shop Campbell, how are other teams supposed to value him? We don't have a QB on our roster who can handle the position currently, so we would be right back in the free agent market (Where Leftwich is as good a solution as any). If it's a sellers market, and no buyers are willing to throw in more than a second rounder, I'd tell them to get lost.

The undertone to your argument is that Campbell's eventual failure in Zorn's offense is inevitable, but you haven't defended that with anything but hearsay and speculation. Lots of people on this fourm (myself included) do disagree with the premise that you have presented, citing measurable evidence such as improved QB rating and pass efficiency in 2008. While it's theoretically possible that you are right, the "lots of people will disagree with me" angle just isn't all that convincing.

Your proposal is another 2nd round pick in trade for a ton of unnecessary offensive turnover, at the most fundamental positions on the team plus tons of unquantifiable scouting uncertainties that come with the change. Is it worth it? Maybe, but it seems like a lot of accounting work just to prove we might be able to break even.

------------

P.S. Past work I've done on this fourm and on my blog has estimated (roughly) that the average expectation for a 2nd round pick is somewhere between 2-3 wins (over replacement) over the life of a rookie contract. That's roughly Campbell's 2008 value alone, depending on whose metrics you deal with.

While a rough analysis is certainly not a be all end all, it's a tough, tough mountain to climb to prove that making Byron Leftwich the Skins starting QB right now is the best move for the Washington Redskins.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

No one with any credibility was saying anything about the Zorn hire outside of "well, they ran a solid process, so we'll see if they were right".

Do you read JLC's blog? He quoted multiple leage executives (unnamed, of course) who criticized Zorns hire - both because no one else thought Zorn could be an OC, let alone HC, but also because of Campbells was essentially the opposite of what you look for in a WCO QB.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Now, if I go out on a limb and pretend you are right: If we find someone willing to deal a 2nd rounder for Campbell, that's a pretty good indication that we missed something in his valuation, right? Matt Schaub was worth two second rounders, and that was a buyers market based mostly on his prospects, not his production.

If we shop Campbell, how are other teams supposed to value him? We don't have a QB on our roster who can handle the position currently, so we would be right back in the free agent market (Where Leftwich is as good a solution as any). If it's a sellers market, and no buyers are willing to throw in more than a second rounder, I'd tell them to get lost.

I actually think we could get more than a 2nd rounder, but in the end, i would take a 2nd if thats all i could get. If another team refused to offer atleast a 2nd rounder, i'd also tell them to get lost.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The undertone to your argument is that Campbell's eventual failure in Zorn's offense is inevitable, but you haven't defended that with anything but hearsay and speculation. Lots of people on this fourm (myself included) do disagree with the premise that you have presented, citing measurable evidence such as improved QB rating and pass efficiency in 2008. While it's theoretically possible that you are right, the "lots of people will disagree with me" angle just isn't all that convincing.

I dont know how either of us can accurately predict whether Campbell will ultimately succeed in the WCO or not and back up our prediction with cold-hard facts. No one can predict the future. It all depends on what "hearsay and speculation" we chose to accept and base our belief on. Like you, i'm willing to say its possible i'm completely wrong about this: Theres a chance Campbell will surprise me here. But when i think about it, theres a FAR greater chance Campbell will fail than that he will succeed. He's too tall, too slow, too indecisive, and too innaccurate on his short throws. (i'll give up the stare down argument because i know it theres no way to prove his percentage of stare-downs vs other QBs). He was drafted by Joe Gibbs to run the EXACT opposite style of offense that we are running now. The WCO doesnt take advantage of his strengths (primarily his preference to longer step drops, big arm, and pretty accurate deep ball), while exaggerating all his weaknesses (i wont bore you by reiterating them). Campbell has improved in some areas - yes (most noteably not fumbling); but his underlying flaws remain.

At some point you have to cut your losses and move on. Im ready to do that now. The bears, Vikings, and Titans are perfect fits for Campbell and they all need franchise QBs. It seems the time is right for us to move him, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Your proposal is another 2nd round pick in trade for a ton of unnecessary offensive turnover, at the most fundamental positions on the team plus tons of unquantifiable scouting uncertainties that come with the change. Is it worth it? Maybe, but it seems like a lot of accounting work just to prove we might be able to break even.

------------

P.S. Past work I've done on this fourm and on my blog has estimated (roughly) that the average expectation for a 2nd round pick is somewhere between 2-3 wins (over replacement) over the life of a rookie contract. That's roughly Campbell's 2008 value alone, depending on whose metrics you deal with.

While a rough analysis is certainly not a be all end all, it's a tough, tough mountain to climb to prove that making Byron Leftwich the Skins starting QB right now is the best move for the Washington Redskins.[/QUOTE]

If we could get more for campbell, i would be happy. As i stated earlier, I dont think leftwich is the best move for the skins, but I think hes a better move for us than sticking with campbell. In the end, I dont think leftwich would be any worse, and trading Campbell could yield us much needed draft picks, which we could use to address our lines. The more picks we have, the more line positions we can address, the sooner we can get this franchise back on track.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If we could get more for campbell, i would be happy. As i stated earlier, I dont think leftwich is the best move for the skins, but I think hes a better move for us than sticking with campbell. In the end, I dont think leftwich would be any worse, and trading Campbell could yield us much needed draft picks, which we could use to address our lines. The more picks we have, the more line positions we can address, the sooner we can get this franchise back on track.

It's also a very, very rough analysis to assume that Leftwich and Campbell are equals, and I've been okay with that assumption, but I think I should clear up that we're talking about a 27 year old vs. a 29 year old, which is a significant difference in terms of QB play. That's a guy with his best years ahead of him vs a guy already in his prime basically.

Then there's the point that you can't really invest massive millions into Leftwich because of injury concerns, but you can in Campbell because he's got a signifcantly nicer injury history.

Byron Leftwich Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Jason Campbell Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

I think we are in agreement though that a Leftwich-caliber QB is the best the FA market will offer in any given year.

In a vacuum, it's probably close enough to justify the proposal, but taken outside of the vacuum, Campbell is simply more promising at this point than Leftwich. And I like em both. But Leftwich's development has been screwed up by poor judgements to the point where he's someone's QB of the now, and he's no one's QB of the future. When he got cut from Jacksonville, he was still a promising if flawed prospect. Sort of like Campbell would be if we cut him outright today (but significantly less flawed).

So, that's the other side of this equation. I agree that this team needs draft picks, but this is a pretty significant cost, trading in your franchise QB for a similiar QB already at his potential. I know you don't see Campbell like I do and that's not going to change, but your position neccessarily requires an inherent (and arguably unsupported) lack of faith in Jason Campbell. Without that, it simply doesn't make sense to the rest of us.

JLC also thinks Campbell is the answer at QB, as long as we're talking about his blog.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

But when i think about it, theres a FAR greater chance Campbell will fail than that he will succeed. He's too tall, too slow, too indecisive, and too innaccurate on his short throws. (i'll give up the stare down argument because i know it theres no way to prove his percentage of stare-downs vs other QBs).

See, I found something in this part that may give me some insight into why you don't think Campbell will work. You said he was "too tall", and maybe I'm reading way to far into this, but I don't know of any QB who has failed because of a surplus of height.

Perhaps the fallacy here is that Campbell doesn't look the part of a West Coast QB, but I don't believe there's a specific skill set that favors a west coast player over a non west coast player.

Moreover, I think you are just reading too much into what the WCO really is. It's a buzzword. I'm not going to base any of my opinions off the term because it doesn't carry any meaning to me. It represents a passing philosophy, where the coach claims to value high percentage passing over a vertical attack, but you are still going to see a steady diet of both.

I would agree with your criticism of Campbell's inaccuracies on shorter passes, argubly more critical to the Zorn offense than others, but a college QB by the name of Brady Quinn came out with the same issue after putting together the most impressive passing resume in the history of his school in an offense that was considered to be "pure" west cost. My point is, short range inaccuracies are not a dehabilitating weakness for a quarterback. They are still going to complete 75% of passes in the 0-5 yd range, even with the occasional ugly ball. That weakness will not make or break a QB.