Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

If he really has this lightning fast decision making that Florio speaks of, he's an upgrade over Campbell by default. One of the many reasons Campbell is a horrible fit here is he can't make decisions quickly enough. He also lconsistently locks on to his receivers and is cripplingly (is that a word?) to take a chance - Leftwich would be an upgrade in those areas as well.

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

Campbell would thrive anywhere that relies on a power running game and Coryell-esque passing game.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, what have you seen to make you believe CB will be successful as an NFL starter?

Off the top of my head, both John Madden and Clinton Portis think Brennan is going to be a baller some day. He is a QB hand-picked by Zorn so Zorn saw something in him.

As to your Timmy Chang comparison, its insulting. From wikipedia:

Colt Brennan

Brennan holds the NCAA D-I record for most touchdown passes in a single season with 58, as well as 30 other NCAA Division I FBS records.

Timmy Chang

Chang currently holds the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision all-time interception record with 80,

Chang also doesnt have the height to be an NFL QB. If not for his injury, Brennan was slated in most mocks to go in round 3; 4 at the latest. Chang was never slated to be drafted by anyone. yes, Brennan was in a very QB-friendly system. yes he has a long way to go, but the kid is a good fit for our offense. He may not be the long-term answer for us at QB, but then again, he may be. Campbell has already proved that he isnt.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Leftwich is not an upgrade over Campbell. I don't accept the premise that Campbell "can't make decisions quickly" or "locks on" moreso than any other QB in his situation. These are very general statements that aren't quantified or backed up by any evidence.

They are general statements yes, but no one who watched him play can disagree with these statements unless they want to argue just for the sake of arguing. Unless someone wants to watch every QBs eyes every play and then compare how many times Campbell stares down vs others, of course it cant be backed up by evidence... but the fact still remains that Campbell almost always stares down his guy. Its not the exception with him, its the rule. He has improved some in his decision making, yes, but his release has barely improved at all. as far as leftwhich being "better" than Campbell... its debateable. neither of them can be our franchise WCO QB. However, if we traded Campbell and went with Leftwich, we would atleast have compensation in extra draft picks.

Gibbs ran that system and JC's QB rating was much less. He's not particularly accurate downfield.

Campbell never had time to develop in that system - but he was a much better fit for it. Our offense as a whole suffered dramatically by the organizational structure here under Gibbs. It was chaos. Gibbs was in charge of the running game, Saunders the passing; Gibbs always made Campbell wait until the last second before giving Campbell the play; etc... all of that really hurt Campbell. if we had kept a similar offense but actually had someone competent running things, our offense (and Campbell) would have been much better in 2009.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Unless someone wants to watch every QBs eyes every play and then compare how many times Campbell stares down vs others, of course it cant be backed up by evidence... but the fact still remains that Campbell almost always stares down his guy.

While I do admire your ability to look at both sides here, you still have to leave this opinion out of the debate because 1) It IS in dispute and 2) it simply can't be proven, or even supported by anything.

You're best off moving forward without this claim, I think.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Off the top of my head, both John Madden and Clinton Portis think Brennan is going to be a baller some day. He is a QB hand-picked by Zorn so Zorn saw something in him.

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

As to your Timmy Chang comparison, its insulting.

You may want to fully read the wiki on Chang again. The comparison is far from insulting. Both played for U of Hawaii in the June Jones offensive system, which creates Passing Stat monsters. Chang still holds several NCAA passing records (INTs, Offensive yards, Career Passing, and is third in total TDs). Chang was on NFL rosters for two years before being out (probably the same for CB) and picking up with the CFL. Chang is 6' 1", CB is 6' 3", those two inches make a difference if both were strictly pocket passers, but Chang is/was much more mobile than CB.

Also it doesn't matter where someone is slated to go in a mock draft, it's where they actually go that matters. Talking heads do mock drafts, guys on the Internet do mock drafts, NFL personnel folks actually draft. 31 other teams didn't see fit to take Brennan ahead of where he went. So 31 other sets of NFL personnel folks didn't see too much in him either. The WCO is not a fit for a QB with a poor release, below-average to weak NFL arm, that appears to makes some poor decisions on the NFL level.

He may not be the long-term answer for us at QB, but then again, he may be. Campbell has already proved that he isnt.

So Campbell improving yearly and increasing his performance from '07 to '08 with an inferior OL "proves" he isn't the guy for our system. The jury may still be out but the indicators appear to be that JC will be a solid, but not superstar, NFL QB.

They are general statements yes, but no one who watched him play can disagree with these statements unless they want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

I disagree with your statements because IMO they're wrong and you have no evidence or stats to show you're right. My stats (improved QB rating, only 6 INTs, 62% completions) favor my position over yours. I watched JC play and I have a completely different impression than you. You are taking the typical fan route, something's wrong, blame the QB. Maybe the protection broke down, maybe the sub 5'10" receivers weren't open, maybe JC's been coached to not make an overly aggressive play resulting in a turn-over. If you believe Jim Zorn is such a great QB evaluator that he "saw something" in CB, doesn't it make sense that if JC was "locking on" to receivers and was a "slow decision maker" that Zorn would've mentioned this (he is pretty forthcoming) or he would've went to Collins, or the Skins would be actively shopping JC for picks?

I don't remember seeing too many on this site making the comments about "slow decision making" & "locking on" when the Skins were 6-2.

Campbell never had time to develop in that system - but he was a much better fit for it.

In the Coryell / Gibbs type system you must be an accurate downfield passer, from what we have seen out of JC, that isn't his strong-suit.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

Didn't Pioli take Brady with a 6th? Where is Brady now?!! Sorry, just wanted to get that out there before it was inevitably brought up. Anyhow, I must admit that Colt has grown on me (maybe because his ugly release reminds me of one of my favorite QBS, Rernie Kosar), though I don't think he's quite ready. I think, from all I've seen and discussed with others, he does have potential to be a pretty good NFL QB.

I think it's a bit unfair to just compare him to Chang simply because they went to the same school. It's like comparing Cushing to Sartz or Peyton Manning to Tee Martin (not exactly, I know).

All kidding aside, Colt is solid with (wait for it Dirtbag) Upside. Still, the focus should be on Campbell who is, and probably always will be, a better NFL QB.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think it's a bit unfair to just compare him to Chang simply because they went to the same school. It's like comparing Cushing to Sartz or Peyton Manning to Tee Martin (not exactly, I know).

I'm comparing him to Chang because they are (IMO) both system QBs with poor fundamentals who don't have NFL level arms or skills.

Still, the focus should be on Campbell who is, and probably always will be, a better NFL QB.

Agree 1000%. Getting rid of Campbell and bringing in Leftwich as a stop-gap, with the thought that Brennan will be "the man" would be extremely foolish and set the Skins back a minimum of 3-4 years. If by some miracle, Brennan develops and due to injury or whatever gets his chance (ala Brady) he's costing next to nothing and we won't have to pay him a large contract until he's brought a significant amount of wins to DC.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

You may want to fully read the wiki on Chang again. The comparison is far from insulting. Both played for U of Hawaii in the June Jones offensive system, which creates Passing Stat monsters. Chang still holds several NCAA passing records (INTs, Offensive yards, Career Passing, and is third in total TDs). Chang was on NFL rosters for two years before being out (probably the same for CB) and picking up with the CFL. Chang is 6' 1", CB is 6' 3", those two inches make a difference if both were strictly pocket passers, but Chang is/was much more mobile than CB.

Also it doesn't matter where someone is slated to go in a mock draft, it's where they actually go that matters. Talking heads do mock drafts, guys on the Internet do mock drafts, NFL personnel folks actually draft. 31 other teams didn't see fit to take Brennan ahead of where he went. So 31 other sets of NFL personnel folks didn't see too much in him either. The WCO is not a fit for a QB with a poor release, below-average to weak NFL arm, that appears to makes some poor decisions on the NFL level.

So Campbell improving yearly and increasing his performance from '07 to '08 with an inferior OL "proves" he isn't the guy for our system. The jury may still be out but the indicators appear to be that JC will be a solid, but not superstar, NFL QB.

I disagree with your statements because IMO they're wrong and you have no evidence or stats to show you're right. My stats (improved QB rating, only 6 INTs, 62% completions) favor my position over yours. I watched JC play and I have a completely different impression than you. You are taking the typical fan route, something's wrong, blame the QB. Maybe the protection broke down, maybe the sub 5'10" receivers weren't open, maybe JC's been coached to not make an overly aggressive play resulting in a turn-over. If you believe Jim Zorn is such a great QB evaluator that he "saw something" in CB, doesn't it make sense that if JC was "locking on" to receivers and was a "slow decision maker" that Zorn would've mentioned this (he is pretty forthcoming) or he would've went to Collins, or the Skins would be actively shopping JC for picks?

I don't remember seeing too many on this site making the comments about "slow decision making" & "locking on" when the Skins were 6-2.

In the Coryell / Gibbs type system you must be an accurate downfield passer, from what we have seen out of JC, that isn't his strong-suit.

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

If thats true then that was a HUGE mistake that ended up costing us more then most people realize. It was during that draft where Ben Patrick (TE Deleware), a guy projected as a 3rd rounder by Mayock was available when we picked Palmer. Now one year later we got a Tight End that can barely get on the field while Patrick is catching TD's and two point conversions in the playoffs for the Cardinals.

Maybe that was just Gibbs picking his guys but I doubt Palmer was the best player available even by the standards in which our front office evaluates players.