Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ryan: 16 TDs, 11 INTs, 87.7 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 1-4

Flacco: 14 TDs, 12 INTs, 80.3 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 0-3

Campbell: 13 TDs, 6 INTs, 84.3 rating, when asked to throw the ball 30 or more times he was 4-2

So it's not like these guys were sooo much better than Campbell

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

Exactly. It always seems like Flacco's stats are something like 11/27, 114 yards, 1 INT. He typically didn't lose the game for them, but he damn sure didn't win it.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Exactly. It always seems like Flacco's stats are something like 11/27, 114 yards, 1 INT. He typically didn't lose the game for them, but he damn sure didn't win it.

It was kind of a Trent Dilfer type contribution. I'm sure JC would of been in the playoffs too if he played for the Ravens.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would argue that Matt Ryan may actually have as much talent, and he didn't win in the playoffs

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

You seem to dismiss that Flacco & Ryan could have gone in and screwed up but they didnt. Had they screwed up their teams wouldnt have made the playoffs.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I see what you're saying but

-I would also argue that the Ravens took Flacco took to the playoffs, not the other way around

Nice perspective on Flacco

If JC has a concerning weakness it may be the inability to sense pressure. But I'm still not completly convinsed of this yet. It could be other contributing factors.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by irish

Stats are nice and JCs stats compare well but now Flacco & Ryan have taken their teams to the playoffs and won. JC hasnt taken his team anywhere. I think when you look at the talent all three have to work with that JC has the most and still cant score or get the team over the hump. Right now Flacco & Ryan are way ahead of JC on the development scale and JC has a bunch more years in the league than they do.

the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

the sky being blue is nice....but it's still green (sorry couldn't resist)

I would argue that neither QB "took" his team to the playoffs. They didn't lose games for the most part, but when asked to put the team on their shoulders, neither could get it done. Not a slight to either QB, because I think both will be good, but Flacco & Ryan are by no means ahead of JC in development, not even close.

JC was asked to carry the team late in the season, behind a poor OL (and yes that makes a HUGE difference) and unfortunately he's not John Elway or Dan Marino. If you watched the games or look at the numbers, the rushing numbers along with passing numbers declined in the second half of the season, due to injury/poor OL play.

As far as talent at skill positions I would take the 2008 versions of Roddy White, Jenkins and Finneran or Mason, Clayton, whoever the Ravens third WR is, over Moss, ARE and our third (Thomas, Thrash). The OLs of both the Falcons and Ravens are tops in the league, ours is bottom third.

Falcons: #2 in rushing attempts, # 2 in Yds, # 3 in TDs, # 10 in Yds/Att.

Ravens: # 1 in Rush Att, # 4 in Yds, # 7 TDs, # 24 in Yds/Att.

These numbers show the superiority of the OLs. They also show coaches who are trying to protect young QBs with a solid run game.

After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance.

The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009.

The sky is often green in LA.

I can only chuckle that anyone would think JC is ahead of Flacco or Ryan. If nothing else having playoff experience puts F & R ahead of JC. Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes). The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.

JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by irish

Like I said in another post, CP's production went down in the second half because the Skins were often playing from behind and had to pass which put more on to JC that he didnt have to do in the first half when his numbers were good (because he didnt have to do more than flip short passes).

Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.

The O line is very important but not critical to success as Pgh didnt have a very good O line this year but what they did have was a QB that could make/extend plays to win games. The Skins dont have that in their QB.

Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.

JC did improve a lot during this past offseason (there wasnt really anywhere to go but up but he did improve) and at his current rate the Skins will have a decent QB in 5 or 6 years.

If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Just because you said it doesn't make it right. The Redskins abandoned the run when it wasn't successful, not because they were "playing from behind" and needed to pass. They were only out of (down by more than 8 pts) in the following games: Steelers, Giants, Ravens. They weren't generating anything with the run game in any of these three games.


Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success.



If JC improves his QB rating another 7 points (as he did from 07 to 08) it will put him as a top ten QB in the NFL.

When a team only averages 16.6 ppg being down by 8 means the game is over. Being down by something less means you have to pass. They did and CP didnt run because of it. Spin it how you want but they didnt run as much because they were down and needed to pass more.

The Pgh D helped them be successful and did take pressure off the O. That said the O did avg 21.7ppg which isnt the best but by no means down in Skins territory. Why do you think they had a run drop off? They lost Fanneca and the line was just not that good. They really went the entire season without much of a running game (due to injuries) but they had a QB who could make plays and win games. The Skins didnt.

Stats do lie and I'll bet you my next paycheck that if you polled all NFL GMs and coaches asking them if they'd rather have BR or JC I am certain 99% take BR. JC has been in the NFL for 4 years now and we are still talking ifs. I think after one more year of excuses the Skins will decide to go in a different direction with the QB position.