For all you D Hall lovers

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

are you serious? his father played in the NFL. The springs family is loaded, with or without Shawns help. And shawns father has nothing to do with the fact that he'll miss a game if there's a stiff breeze - they guys #1 priority is money and he's not going to play (to earn his money) if he doesnt want to. he has no "heart" and he sets a bad example for the other players. Im sure Carlos has learned alot from him the past 4 years and observing his attitude could very well have contributed to Carlos attitude now in demanding a trade.

Who are we to say that Springs has no heart? Who are we to judge that his calf injury was some made up excuse. Who are we to act like just because he's an NFL player with money that flying nearly cross country every week to visit your comatose father, dealing with your stepmom's breast cancer, and his own impending divorce and custody battle. He has no heart? Please. He nearly gave up his career (including the money) to donate his kidney to his ailing father. A man with no heart doesn't do that.

Where was all this talk of "no heart" when Springs played all 16 games in 2007 and had 4 INTs in the last month of the season to help catapult us into the playoffs?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

are you serious? his father played in the NFL. The springs family is loaded, with or without Shawns help. And shawns father has nothing to do with the fact that he'll miss a game if there's a stiff breeze - they guys #1 priority is money and he's not going to play (to earn his money) if he doesnt want to. he has no "heart" and he sets a bad example for the other players. Im sure Carlos has learned alot from him the past 4 years and observing his attitude could very well have contributed to Carlos attitude now in demanding a trade.

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. When his father played he made a decent salary, I wouldn't say he broke the bank. As for injuries, the guy is injury prone; trust me, I'm not trying to cover for him.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Hall was only 19 when he came into the league, so it shouldnt come as a surprise that he had some maturity issues early on in his career. but for goodness sakes, hes 25 now. most guys do ALOT of maturing in that time period. He's gone on the record saying he was miserable in Oakland and the experience showed him money isnt everything. He was as close to a model citizen as you want your starting corner to be. every corner gets a personal foul now and then - i seem to remember the "beloved" carlos rogers getting a couple this year - yet why is no one talking about his character and maturity? Hall has also gone on record saying how much he looks up to Fletcher and asks him for advice. Hall is saying and DOING all the right things. He has done enough to show most - if not all - of his maturity problems are a thing of the past. He's certainly done enough to show he's more mature than Carlos Rogers is at this point, with all his complaining about his contract, playing time, and even demanding a trade.

And what about our other corner, Springs? He's as selfish and greedy as they come - yet no one criticizes his character. Looking at our corner situation, we have two young, talented guys in Hall and Rogers. Some people say its an either/or situation - but i dont think we should have to chose between them. I think we should extend Hall and keep Rogers, atleast one more year... but if given a choice, i'd pick Hall in a heartbeat and not look back. He is - by far - the better (and more mature) corner.

I agree with alot of what you say BHA. As I said I expected more of a reaction on the play where Springs messed up his INT but he didn't get bent out of shape and throw his teammate under the bus. A good sign to me. If Gray wants to sign him I'm all for it. I just don't want to break the bank on him. I've watch D.Hall all through HS and college. I live 5 minutes from Deep Creek High School where we both graduated. I hope he has matured. He had a lot of maturing to do. He was a great HS player but even then he was a selfish prima donna who cost us the state championship one year. Granted we couldn't have got there without him, but a dumbass selfish mistake contributed alot to us losing the game. With that said, I believe he is in the best situation for him in his entire pro career. I believe he's in a locker room that is condusive to him being more of a team player. As for Carlos and Springs, I think they've both taken their share of critizism and rightfully so. All I'm saying is we need to give him a good contract but not an unreasonable one. If he's gone on record as saying money isn't everything as you say, then we shouldn't have to break the bank on him. He's also stated he wants to play here. So I wouldn't necessarily treat him like we need him but he doesn't need us.

[SmootSmack]

I think there is no way to say with confidence that someone has or doesn't have heart on the field. If I recall correctly, when Brunell was playing hurt back in 2004 (or maybe it was '06) he was being ripped for being selfish and refusing to sit out when he was clearly hurt. But I guess he had heart.

Selfishly, I'd like the team to keep Springs. He can still play the game and is one of our best and smartest players when he's on the field (which is more often than not). But I also know that from a monetary standpoint it may be best to let him go. And I know that Shawn Springs has too much going on with his life to need to put up with fans accusing him of having no heart every step he takes.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think there is no way to say with confidence that someone has or doesn't have heart on the field. If I recall correctly, when Brunell was playing hurt back in 2004 (or maybe it was '06) he was being ripped for being selfish and refusing to sit out when he was clearly hurt. But I guess he had heart.

Selfishly, I'd like the team to keep Springs. He can still play the game and is one of our best and smartest players when he's on the field (which is more often than not). But I also know that from a monetary standpoint it may be best to let him go. And I know that Shawn Springs has too much going on with his life to need to put up with fans accusing him of having no heart every step he takes.

I think there is no way to say with confidence that Springs gives a crap what fans say about him... unless you or I are shawn springs, we cant know for sure what is going on in his head. all we have to do is look at the evidence as we see it and make our own judgements. this isnt a court of law. its a court of public opinion. Springs has done nothing to endear himself to fans. He has done nothing to earn his salary last year and he has done nothing to show he's worth 8.5M in 2009. If Springs were making the vet minimum and pushed himself to be in games, that would be one thing. But he's been making an insane amount of money to do next to nothing. If springs choses to restructure and extend his contract to stay here at a reasonable rate for a guy with his history of making the team wonder whether hes going to play or not all week, every week, then my opinion of him will change. If he retires, my opinion of him will change.

However, when he refuses to restructure, gets cut by the Skins, and then signs with Dallas within a week for a fraction of what he would have made here, then we'll see how you feel about him then. I can feel sympathy for Springs as a person with his off-field trials just like i can feel sympathy for Reed Doughty... but at the end of the day, its what they do on the field that counts. If you cant get on the field, or if you don't play well when you are on the field, you cant expect to be on the team and you certainly cant expect fans to love you. If feeling that way makes me a cold-hearted sob, then i guess thats what I am.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think there is no way to say with confidence that Springs gives a crap what fans say about him... unless you or I are shawn springs, we cant know for sure what is going on in his head.

Sure, but I'm not the one who said he had "no heart" or even brought such an intangible factor into the discussion.

all we have to do is look at the evidence as we see it and make our own judgements. this isnt a court of law. its a court of public opinion. Springs has done nothing to endear himself to fans.

Nothing? Really?

He has done nothing to earn his salary last year and he has done nothing to show he's worth 8.5M in 2009. If Springs were making the vet minimum and pushed himself to be in games, that would be one thing. But he's been making an insane amount of money to do next to nothing.

He was hurt last year, but you'd like him to give back the money due to him in exchange for the vet min?

However, when he refuses to restructure, gets cut by the Skins, and then signs with Dallas within a week for a fraction of what he would have made here, then we'll see how you feel about him then.

I'd always thought he would end his career in Arizona actually (but Dallas is a possibility I suppose). If he does that, I'd miss him as a player on the Redskins but I'd wish him the best as he'd be closer to home and family.

I can feel sympathy for Springs as a person with his off-field trials just like i can feel sympathy for Reed Doughty... but at the end of the day, its what they do on the field that counts. If you cant get on the field, or if you don't play well when you are on the field, you cant expect to be on the team and you certainly cant expect fans to love you. If feeling that way makes me a cold-hearted sob, then i guess thats what I am.

But you don't seem to want to evaluate his performance on the field.

[Paintrain]

I'd think that most rational Redskins fans would agree that we'd be best served going into next season with a defensive backfield that contained Springs, Hall, Rogers, Smoot, Horton and Landry. Whether we're able to make that happen is a big question mark but if we are able to re-sign Hall and we don't trade Rogers then starting Hall and Rogers at CB with Springs and Landry at the safety spots would give us the best DB grouping the league.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Sure, but I'm not the one who said he had "no heart" or even brought such an intangible factor into the discussion.

Fair, but as I also said, its my opinion and its just as valid as yours. i feel i have far more evidence to show he has lost his heart for the game than you have to show he hasnt.

Nothing? Really?

The goodwill he had when he came here has slowly deteriorated over the years as his performance and availability for games has declined. He was a question mark every single week last year. sometimes he played, sometimes he didnt. he (allegedly) secretly went and aired dirt in the media two seasons ago. when you listen to him on the radio, its obvious he is just in it for the money, and doesnt care about staying in Washington.

He was hurt last year, but you'd like him to give back the money due to him in exchange for the vet min?

dont be ridiculous. he was grossly overpaid last year. we all know it. Springs knows it. we're suckers and he's milking us for all we're worth. Its very smart from his perspective as he's getting money no one else would pay him... but from the team perspective, its foolish.

I'd always thought he would end his career in Arizona actually (but Dallas is a possibility I suppose). If he does that, I'd miss him as a player on the Redskins but I'd wish him the best as he'd be closer to home and family.

He'd love to play on the same team as his bff Terrell Owens. the fact that Springs is so close with Owens is all we really need to know about his character.

But you don't seem to want to evaluate his performance on the field.

i know he's started only 29 of his last 48 regular season games and been paid handsomely for it. I also know that in 3 of the last 4 years, he only had one interception a year. i know he defended 7 passes in 2008 and made about a million bucks for each of them. I know at this point in the his career, he would make a very good free safety if he could stay healthy, which is a huge question mark.

i know if he really wants to play football, and if he really wants to play football for the redskins, we will be more than willing to give him a new contract that pays him more than anyone else would pay him to play safety... i'm also 90% certain that Springs would reject such an offer. id like nothing for than for him to prove me wrong, but we'll see where Springs is on opening day 2009.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Fair, but as I also said, its my opinion and its just as valid as yours. i feel i have far more evidence to show he has lost his heart for the game than you have to show he hasnt.

I think Crazy Canuck lacks Warpath heart, judging by how infrequently he posts here. Sounds pretty dumb doesn't it. But hey if you've got the evidence, then more power to you.

He'd love to play on the same team as his bff Terrell Owens. the fact that Springs is so close with Owens is all we really need to know about his character.

Because he's friends with TO he's a bad person?

[MTK]

This whole thing about Springs and lack of heart is pretty stupid.

The guy was hurt and couldn't play, end of story. If he was able to play he would have been out there. He gutted it out plenty of times before yet that seems to escape our memories.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This whole thing about Springs and lack of heart is pretty stupid.

The guy was hurt and couldn't play, end of story. If he was able to play he would have been out there. He gutted it out plenty of times before yet that seems to escape our memories.

Remember the Bears game in 2007 when Springs' back was hurting so badly he could barely stand up straight, and he intercepted 2 passes one of which he returned like 50 yards to set up a score that sealed the game?? We had just buried ST, and Campbell was carted off the field with a dislocated knee. We had every reason to curl up and die, and Shawn was huge for us.

We can all agree that Todd Collins was our offensive MVP during that 4 game run to the playoffs. There's no question in my mind Springs was our defensive MVP during that stretch. He was awesome. No one was questioning his heart then.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Remember the Bears game in 2007 when Springs' back was hurting so badly he could barely stand up straight, and he intercepted 2 passes one of which he returned like 50 yards to set up a score that sealed the game?? We had just buried ST, and Campbell was carted off the field with a dislocated knee. We had every reason to curl up and die, and Shawn was huge for us.

We can all agree that Todd Collins was our offensive MVP during that 4 game run to the playoffs. There's no question in my mind Springs was our defensive MVP during that stretch. He was awesome. No one was questioning his heart then.

Exactly the game I was thinking of. He was a game time decision and he was pretty doubtful to go, but he ended up having a HUGE game that helped spark that playoff run.

But yeah the dude has no heart... give me a break.

[GTripp0012]

The other factor here is the mantra that there's no place on the field to hide a bad corner. People playing Oakland only had half the field to use, and they found Hall for more completions than anyone else in the NFL.

If you can find him in that situation, you can find him in any situation. Rogers just seems to take a lot of the attention away when defending the opponents' number one receiver because people will throw against him as opposed to Hall.

[SmootSmack]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think last year was a strong year to draft a starting caliber CB. For example, maybe they could have passed on Thomas and taken Brandon Flowers but they didn't. Lucky for them, D. Hall has fallen in their laps. I think they'd be foolish to pass on the opportunity to lock him up and line him up with Rogers for the next 5-10 years.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think last year was a strong year to draft a starting caliber CB. For example, maybe they could have passed on Thomas and taken Brandon Flowers but they didn't. Lucky for them, D. Hall has fallen in their laps. I think they'd be foolish to pass on the opportunity to lock him up and line him up with Rogers for the next 5-10 years.

I don't think there's any doubt they will.

I also think there's no hurry to get anything done. It's not like Hall has serious interest from the rest of the teams in the NFL, all of whom could have had him basically free of charge at mid-season. Waiting seems like it would save us some money.

Why would anyone who has ever ripped Vinny Cerrato be in such a rush to pump 8 figures into Hall's bank account in this economic climate? That's like the most irresponsible thing he could possibly do.