Your Thoughts on the D-line...

[The Goat]

Ok I'm very curious if there's a consensus, or at least a majority opinion, on how the FO should/will handle the d-line this off-season. I'll be honest I've given it some thought but can't really even decide for myself what makes the most sense. Here are the main points I see:

- The FA market is very shallow at both DE and DT and the two top guys will command huge money i.e. Peppers and Haynesworth, respectively. I don't believe Haynesworth can be franchised again, according to his contract, and clearly the Panthers have a tough decision ahead whether to tag Julius. Anyway my early thoughts have been we ought to pass on both guys but want to hear what good arguments are out there for grabbing one or the other... signing both would be impossible, right?

- Again beyond Peppers and Haynesworth there just isn't much to be had in FA: Gabe Watson (DT) is a RFA w/ the Cards and shouldn't be available. No way do I want Tank Johnson. Basically Monty is as good as any other young guy out there to rotate at DT. Most of the available DEs are coming out of the 3-4 scheme, with Evans actually being one of the better run-stoppers among the whole group (I think we need to resign him).

- Daniels looks to be back to 100% by start of camp and will cost around $2.2 mil on the year

- Jason Taylor earlier signaled he may play for less but more recently some have rumored he won't, which means he'll cost somewhere in the vicinity of $8.5 mil

I've been leaning more toward the "spring cleaning" strategy where we dump Daniels and Taylor to make cap room that would probably be spent at OL and/or OLB. IMHO we'll be fine at DT. I see no reason Griffin won't be a warrior again this season and Monty and Golston still show promise, Monty especially. But DE is more tricky. Evans and AC would obviously start but the risk is beyond those two there's minimal experience. Rob Jackson @ 269 lbs certainly has the size to play LDE but honestly I have no idea how talented he is. Chris Wilson could fill in at RDE but again I have little idea about talent. So again maybe that leaves us too thin in which we have to retain either Daniels or Taylor. But in that case who?

[GTripp0012]

Well, the only thing I can say about Taylor with any certainty is that if Blache can use him more creatively next year than he did this year, a healthy Jason Taylor will probably earn his salary. Use him to matchup against unique players (like against Philly) and let Daniels be the every down end.

I think it needs to be clearly understood that there's nothing we can do in the draft to significantly improve our DL production for next year. There's no guys who would play into Blache's scheme in front of the guys we already have. Well, BJ Raji would, but he's not going to be available when we pick.

I do think we should take a potentially dominant DL in the first round if we are getting great value on it. At 13, that's pretty much just Raji, but if we can trade down in the round, I would look at Peria Jerry, Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown, and even Ziggy Hood.

After those guys are gone, I would pass on the position for now. I'd look at LB, but on the OL as well before I look at the DL.

Do NOT rule out the selection of a 3-4 OLB type to play the strong side for us. There's absolutely a spot for a player like that in Blache's defense. Problem is, we already have a guy named Jason Taylor who isn't used that way.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Ok I'm very curious if there's a consensus, or at least a majority opinion, on how the FO should/will handle the d-line this off-season. I'll be honest I've given it some thought but can't really even decide for myself what makes the most sense. Here are the main points I see:

- The FA market is very shallow at both DE and DT and the two top guys will command huge money i.e. Peppers and Haynesworth, respectively. I don't believe Haynesworth can be franchised again, according to his contract, and clearly the Panthers have a tough decision ahead whether to tag Julius. Anyway my early thoughts have been we ought to pass on both guys but want to hear what good arguments are out there for grabbing one or the other... signing both would be impossible, right?

- Again beyond Peppers and Haynesworth there just isn't much to be had in FA: Gabe Watson (DT) is a RFA w/ the Cards and shouldn't be available. No way do I want Tank Johnson. Basically Monty is as good as any other young guy out there to rotate at DT. Most of the available DEs are coming out of the 3-4 scheme, with Evans actually being one of the better run-stoppers among the whole group (I think we need to resign him).
- Daniels looks to be back to 100% by start of camp and will cost around $2.2 mil on the year

- Jason Taylor earlier signaled he may play for less but more recently some have rumored he won't, which means he'll cost somewhere in the vicinity of $8.5 mil

I've been leaning more toward the "spring cleaning" strategy where we dump Daniels and Taylor to make cap room that would probably be spent at OL and/or OLB. IMHO we'll be fine at DT. I see no reason Griffin won't be a warrior again this season and Monty and Golston still show promise, Monty especially. But DE is more tricky. Evans and AC would obviously start but the risk is beyond those two there's minimal experience. Rob Jackson @ 269 lbs certainly has the size to play LDE but honestly I have no idea how talented he is. Chris Wilson could fill in at RDE but again I have little idea about talent. So again maybe that leaves us too thin in which we have to retain either Daniels or Taylor. But in that case who?

All of what you said depends on what we do in FA (your first two points) If we either get Haynesworth or (mainly Peppers) this changes the what we do with Daniels and Taylor. Say if we get Peppers, I would let Dainels and Taylor both walk based on that we save some cap room and their age, and I'd would be more than happy to see Peppers and Carter at both ends in '09. However if we get Haynesworth deciding between Dainels and Taylor is irrelevant. I'm taking a wait and see approach just because there are too many scenarios that could happen.

[Nflnick11]

I realized that after watching the steelers win it this year, I thought to myself " our oline isn't that good, but theirs is awful," but then you look over to our pass rush and see how we had like 19 sacks or something like that all year, while the steelers had like 30 from just there OLBs alone... My point is that defense wins championships and we should probably focus on Dline (DE in particular) and built that through the draft, and at least making a run At haynesworth... We can just get an olineman or 2 through free agency and a few through the draft in later picks, but with our first pick I would go after orakpo first, maybin second and if neither is there trade down and get an olineman

[Eknox]

We need to start in the middle (Haynesworth)..

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, the only thing I can say about Taylor with any certainty is that if Blache can use him more creatively next year than he did this year, a healthy Jason Taylor will probably earn his salary. Use him to matchup against unique players (like against Philly) and let Daniels be the every down end.

I think it needs to be clearly understood that there's nothing we can do in the draft to significantly improve our DL production for next year. There's no guys who would play into Blache's scheme in front of the guys we already have. Well, BJ Raji would, but he's not going to be available when we pick.

I do think we should take a potentially dominant DL in the first round if we are getting great value on it. At 13, that's pretty much just Raji, but if we can trade down in the round, I would look at Peria Jerry, Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown, and even Ziggy Hood.

After those guys are gone, I would pass on the position for now. I'd look at LB, but on the OL as well before I look at the DL.

Do NOT rule out the selection of a 3-4 OLB type to play the strong side for us. There's absolutely a spot for a player like that in Blache's defense. Problem is, we already have a guy named Jason Taylor who isn't used that way.

Couple of questions GTripp: what qualifies as creative when it comes to Taylor? Moving him all over d-line (even the interior)? Dropping him back to OLB? The thing about him i get caught up with is he doesn't seem strong against the run anywhere so wherever you put him offenses can attack w/ a lead blocker and it's a sure gain.

Second, are you referring to 3-4 OLB from the draft, FA or either? See I had the idea that Suggs could be that guy for us, sitting at SLB most downs but dropping down to end for instance when we run the Cobra, but it seems less and less likely he'll be available.

[Ruhskins]

Ok, everyone repeat after me:

"Haynesworth and Peppers are too expensive and the team does not have the cap room to get such player"

Thanks!

[Dirtbag59]

I'm inclined to think that more of the problems stemmed from the way Blache or Palmero got the players to attack the LOS. Plus if I remember right Blache coached defenses never were ones for producing sacks, so maybe a change in scheme will benefit our defensive front. I mean for god sakes look at how good the Suns are doing now with a scheme change over in the NBA (81 1st half points) granted it's not football I'm just excited that the Suns are back to the run and gun as they've been my surrogate team over the past few years in the NBA.

The O-line's problems from my view were related to players wearing down faster then their opponents were while the D-Line probably was constrained by the emphasis on stopping the run. If anything I think we can afford to let loose a little this year.

If history is any indication our defense will be fine, what we really need to do is coach up our skill players and get some new blood on the O-line.

[Redskin Jim]

Agree with both of you guys, Ruhskins and Goat. Hayneswoth and Peppers are financially out of reach. As for Suggs, the guy is a player. We can fit him in, in other words put him in position Slb or DE to be a playmaker.

[The Goat]

... I've seen a handful of mocks that have us taking Orakpo @ 13. I don't understand this. Nagging knee injuries forced him to miss time the last two years and his size doesn't permit him to be a monster run-stopper @ LDE. I tend to agree w/ GTripp that the only d-linemen worth the 13th overall is Raji and yeah it looks like he'll be long gone.

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by The Goat

... I've seen a handful of mocks that have us taking Orakpo @ 13. I don't understand this. Nagging knee injuries forced him to miss time the last two years and his size doesn't permit him to be a monster run-stopper @ LDE. I tend to agree w/ GTripp that the only d-linemen worth the 13th overall is Raji and yeah it looks like he'll be long gone.

YESSS, I'm leery about having ANOTHER LB on our roster with KNEE PROBLEMS!

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by Redskin Jim

YESSS, I'm leery about having ANOTHER LB on our roster with KNEE PROBLEMS!

McIntosh, Washington, Blades... Orakpo?!! WTF

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by The Goat

... I've seen a handful of mocks that have us taking Orakpo @ 13. I don't understand this. Nagging knee injuries forced him to miss time the last two years and his size doesn't permit him to be a monster run-stopper @ LDE. I tend to agree w/ GTripp that the only d-linemen worth the 13th overall is Raji and yeah it looks like he'll be long gone.

Lol, everything you said up to Raji made sense to our front office

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Redskin Jim

McIntosh, Washington, Blades... Orakpo?!! WTF

Not sure about Blades having knee probs but again I never really follow college. He appears pretty solid when he plays and I wonder if Blache is half tempted to let Blades start at SLB this year assuming 1) Marcus is shown the door 2) the FO doesn't see anything in FA they really like for SLB and 3) he (Blache) gets the best available SLB in the 3rd round, or maybe 2nd round depending on compensatory picks and trades.

... one thing about Blades i never realized till i checked his profile is his mass. 250 lbs!!!

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Redskin Jim

Agree with both of you guys, Ruhskins and Goat. Hayneswoth and Peppers are financially out of reach. As for Suggs, the guy is a player. We can fit him in, in other words put him in position Slb or DE to be a playmaker.

I just saw on Sportsnite on comcast that if Suggs isn't signed by Thursday, Baltimore will tag him again.