For all you D Hall lovers

[CRedskinsRule]

I think the FO is handling it reasonably, which is to let the market shake out.
I imagine Hall could sign a contract with multi-million dollars guaranteed right now with us, and this after getting 8million from the Raiders. I think a reasonable argument can be made that if Hall is holding us up for the Max dollars, then chances are he has not learned anything and his time with us was just to get a fat contract.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think a reasonable argument can be made that if Hall is holding us up for the Max dollars, then chances are he has not learned anything and his time with us was just to get a fat contract.

Stop with this logic and well reasoned thinking, it has no place here.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think the FO is handling it reasonably, which is to let the market shake out.
I imagine Hall could sign a contract with multi-million dollars guaranteed right now with us, and this after getting 8million from the Raiders. I think a reasonable argument can be made that if Hall is holding us up for the Max dollars, then chances are he has not learned anything and his time with us was just to get a fat contract.

Well said my friend.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think the FO is handling it reasonably, which is to let the market shake out.
I imagine Hall could sign a contract with multi-million dollars guaranteed right now with us, and this after getting 8million from the Raiders. I think a reasonable argument can be made that if Hall is holding us up for the Max dollars, then chances are he has not learned anything and his time with us was just to get a fat contract.

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden). Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.

Originally Posted by 53Fan

You mean like with Oakland last year? That's not gonna happen because Hall learned his lesson. Money isn't everything. Remember?

Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden). Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.


Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

I think this situation is being handled well by both sides. It seems that there were some discussions before, when some figures about a potential deal were mentioned by JLC, showing that the team wanted to re-sign Hall or at least they were in discussions.

If you were Hall, and you knew that there were a number of CBs in the market (Asomugha, Dunta Robinson, Hayden), wouldn't you have want to wait and see how the market played out? So good for him if he wants to test the market.

That's a risk you take with players who want to become free agents. You can try and get them early, or they will tell you that they want to test the market. Honestly, I don't know why people are getting so worked up over this.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden).

Fair or not, Hall got his BIG contract last year, and he was cut. I just don't think that fact should be ignored

Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.

Look I can agree with Pierce and Ryan, I hated those two players leaving, but they were "proven Redskins", made sacrifices for the team, played their role, and then when they got their shot, we did not step up. But Hall, regardless of talent(which I admit my bias that while his hands are incredible, his coverage is not as good -imo), is not worthy of a Skins for life contract. If he goes, I will still miss Champ more than him, and will wish him success, just not against us.

Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

I get it, you hate the FO, but I have to wonder if Vinny/Snyder were giving him 18-20M guaranteed at the very outset, or if they had signed him off of waivers if you would not have been screaming just how dumb the FO is for bringing in Hall in the first place.

I don't think the Skins FO is dysfunctional, and I think there is solid proof that they are learning every year. But on that we will most likely have to agree to disagree.

And one last note- I would like Hall to be back here, but not for more than 12M guaranteed. Give the rest to him in incentives. That works.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

This is where you lose me BHA. I like the points you bring up but then you say things like this. Do you really think N.E. would pay Hall the type of money you propose? This from a team that said no to Assante Samuel? I don't think anyone here opposes having Hall on our team. But to give him a huge contract just doesn't make sense to me. Why not offer him a good 3 year deal? If he doesn't turn out to be the player some think he will be, then we're not stuck with him forever. If he doe's turn out well, then we can either resign him or Tag him for at least 2 years. Or MAYBE even draft his replacement in the meantime. Having a shutdown corner, which Hall is not, does'nt guarantee wins. I give you Champ Bailey. Our secondary was one of our strengths before Hall even got here. If we're going to spend some money let's get Carey and a kicker in here and draft an OLB who can get to the QB. I think these things will go further toward making the playoffs on a consistent basis than giving Hall a big longterm deal.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

This is where you lose me BHA. I like the points you bring up but then you say things like this. Do you really think N.E. would pay Hall the type of money you propose? This from a team that said no to Assante Samuel? I don't think anyone here opposes having Hall on our team. But to give him a huge contract just doesn't make sense to me. Why not offer him a good 3 year deal? If he doesn't turn out to be the player some think he will be, then we're not stuck with him forever. If he doe's turn out well, then we can either resign him or Tag him for at least 2 years. Or MAYBE even draft his replacement in the meantime. Having a shutdown corner, which Hall is not, does'nt guarantee wins. I give you Champ Bailey. Our secondary was one of our strengths before Hall even got here. If we're going to spend some money let's get Carey and a kicker in here and draft an OLB who can get to the QB. I think these things will go further toward making the playoffs on a consistent basis than giving Hall a big longterm deal.

I like your idea of the 3 year deal 53. Also agree we shouldnt break the bank for Hall but we should have IMO gave him his 16M and signed him. I'm also real strong on getting a real kicker in here. It would be nice to make the other guys have to drive 80-90 yards more often.

Also Hall is th closest thing we have to Champ Bailey and he has Darrell Green speed. I believe he runs a 4.2 40

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 44ever

I like your idea of the 3 year deal 53. Also agree we shouldnt break the bank for Hall but we should have IMO gave him his 16M and signed him. I'm also real strong on getting a real kicker in here. It would be nice to make the other guys have to drive 80-90 yards more often.

Also Hall is th closest thing we have to Champ Bailey and he has Darrell Green speed. I believe he runs a 4.2 40

Forgot to comment on it, but from a team perspective, i like the idea of a 3 year deal. however, Hall has no incentive to do such a deal unless its very lucrative (8-9M+/year), which would be bad for us. It just doesnt seem like a realistic option though.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

This is where you lose me BHA. I like the points you bring up but then you say things like this. Do you really think N.E. would pay Hall the type of money you propose? This from a team that said no to Assante Samuel? I don't think anyone here opposes having Hall on our team. But to give him a huge contract just doesn't make sense to me. Why not offer him a good 3 year deal? If he doesn't turn out to be the player some think he will be, then we're not stuck with him forever. If he doe's turn out well, then we can either resign him or Tag him for at least 2 years. Or MAYBE even draft his replacement in the meantime. Having a shutdown corner, which Hall is not, does'nt guarantee wins. I give you Champ Bailey. Our secondary was one of our strengths before Hall even got here. If we're going to spend some money let's get Carey and a kicker in here and draft an OLB who can get to the QB. I think these things will go further toward making the playoffs on a consistent basis than giving Hall a big longterm deal.

Asante wanted and got more money than what New England would be pay Hall. New England is not a stingy team, they just valued Samuel alot less than he valued himself... as to why i listed them as a team that would be intersted in Hall, i was listening to an NFL podcast (some espn guy) last week that was actually speculating that New England would be pursuing Aso if he wasnt tagged. CB is one of the primary positions they plan on upgrading and I would be shocked if they did not consider signing Hall, Bly, or Bodden... those players would also likely sign for NE cheaper than other teams, as they would have the chance to play for a team thats an annual contender.

As to our own needs, our secondary was a strength before hall got here, but Halls arrival semi-coincided with Springs recurring injury and Rogers and Smoots drop in play. Considering that Springs really should be let go due to his cap figure, Rogers is being a tool demanding a trade, and Smoot is just horrible... what was once a strenght could become our most glaring weakness overnight. At the end of the season, Hall was without a doubt our best corner. Signing him gives us so much more flexibility in what we can do.

Realistically, at this point, I think Hall may be priced out of what we should pay for him. If the FO had any foresight, as many of us fans did, they would have signed him to a 14-16M deal when they had the chance. Now, our best bet may be to let him sign elsewhere. We have too many needs to give ANYONE 20+M garaunteed and, as the current top corner on the market, Hall is in the drivers seat, and he will command top dollar.

If Hall walks, we certianly need to stay away from any other corners in the first couple weeks of free agency. Teams dont need top corners if they have a strong pass rush, so i think our best bet may be to let the offensive line stay pretty much in tact for another year and use our first round pick on a passrusher instead of a franchise RT.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Asante wanted and got more money than what New England would be pay Hall. New England is not a stingy team, they just valued Samuel alot less than he valued himself... as to why i listed them as a team that would be intersted in Hall, i was listening to an NFL podcast (some espn guy) last week that was actually speculating that New England would be pursuing Aso if he wasnt tagged. CB is one of the primary positions they plan on upgrading and I would be shocked if they did not consider signing Hall, Bly, or Bodden... those players would also likely sign for NE cheaper than other teams, as they would have the chance to play for a team thats an annual contender.

As to our own needs, our secondary was a strength before hall got here, but Halls arrival semi-coincided with Springs recurring injury and Rogers and Smoots drop in play. Considering that Springs really should be let go due to his cap figure, Rogers is being a tool demanding a trade, and Smoot is just horrible... what was once a strenght could become our most glaring weakness overnight. At the end of the season, Hall was without a doubt our best corner. Signing him gives us so much more flexibility in what we can do.

Realistically, at this point, I think Hall may be priced out of what we should pay for him. If the FO had any foresight, as many of us fans did, they would have signed him to a 14-16M deal when they had the chance. Now, our best bet may be to let him sign elsewhere. We have too many needs to give ANYONE 20+M garaunteed and, as the current top corner on the market, Hall is in the drivers seat, and he will command top dollar.

If Hall walks, we certianly need to stay away from any other corners in the first couple weeks of free agency. Teams dont need top corners if they have a strong pass rush, so i think our best bet may be to let the offensive line stay pretty much in tact for another year and use our first round pick on a passrusher instead of a franchise RT.

How is Carlos Rogers a tool for saying he was frustrated he wasn't starting (which led to unsubsuntiated rumors that he was demanding a trade), yet Hall isn't a tool for allegedly (according to "well placed sources inside Redskin Park) refusing $12 million guaranteed when it was, again allegedly, offered to him?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How is Carlos Rogers a tool for saying he was frustrated he wasn't starting (which led to unsubsuntiated rumors that he was demanding a trade), yet Hall isn't a tool for allegedly (according to "well placed sources inside Redskin Park) refusing $12 million guaranteed when it was, again allegedly, offered to him?

The difference is clear - one of these players is under contract. The other is not. One of them is making goundless demands. The other is negotiating.

Rogers signed a contract and is still contractualy obligated to play for the washington redskins for TWO more years... yet he allegedly has demanded a trade. Thats very toolish if you ask me.

Hall is whats known as a free agent. He has no contractual obligations to the washington redskins. He is not (allegedly) making threats or demands. We got half a seasons worth of play out of him at a bargain price. He, like anyone would, refused to accept a teams first, lowball offer of 12M dollars. Probably a good thing to, because he will get substantially more on the open market. Hall allegedly proposed to stay in washington for 16M garaunteed. Considering what he will get on the open market, that is a substantial hometown discount.

Assuming the leaked info on both Hall and Rogers is true, Rogers is a total Tool in the mold of T.O. and Hall is just a guy with a very smart agent, who offered the team he wants to play for a nice hometown discount... Joe Gibbs had a phrase for guys like that. what was it again?

EDIT: I may have taken that a bit too far with that last part, lol

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The difference is clear - one of these players is under contract. The other is not. One of them is making goundless demands. The other is negotiating.

Rogers signed a contract and is still contractualy obligated to play for the washington redskins for TWO more years... yet he allegedly has demanded a trade. Thats very toolish if you ask me.

Unless he never actually made those demands, in which case he's not a tool.

Hall is whats known as a free agent. He has no contractual obligations to the washington redskins. He is not (allegedly) making threats or demands. We got half a seasons worth of play out of him at a bargain price. He, like anyone would, refused to accept a teams first, lowball offer of 12M dollars. Probably a good thing to, because he will get substantially more on the open market. Hall allegedly proposed to stay in washington for 16M garaunteed. Considering what he will get on the open market, that is a substantial hometown discount.

And the Redskins have no contractual obligation to Hall. And just like Hall and his agent, they are negotiating. If he can get more than 16M guaranteed on the open market, more power to him though.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

This is where you lose me BHA. I like the points you bring up but then you say things like this. Do you really think N.E. would pay Hall the type of money you propose? This from a team that said no to Assante Samuel? I don't think anyone here opposes having Hall on our team. But to give him a huge contract just doesn't make sense to me. Why not offer him a good 3 year deal? If he doesn't turn out to be the player some think he will be, then we're not stuck with him forever. If he doe's turn out well, then we can either resign him or Tag him for at least 2 years. Or MAYBE even draft his replacement in the meantime. Having a shutdown corner, which Hall is not, does'nt guarantee wins. I give you Champ Bailey. Our secondary was one of our strengths before Hall even got here. If we're going to spend some money let's get Carey and a kicker in here and draft an OLB who can get to the QB. I think these things will go further toward making the playoffs on a consistent basis than giving Hall a big longterm deal.

Carey resigned with Miami.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Carey resigned with Miami.

Ain't that a B*t*h !