Seems like Cutler might be available.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

there's a flip-side to that coin - if campbell had looked good in any one of those systems, the system wouldn't have been changed.

Well, the thing with Saunders' system is that we couldn't run the ball.

Losing Dockery really hurt us there, because Kendall was ill-suited for that type of run blocking (much like Randy Thomas seems a bit ill-suited for the current run blocking).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

there's a flip-side to that coin - if campbell had looked good in any one of those systems, the system wouldn't have been changed.

I don't think JC was the reasons for the system changes. Gibbs thought the team would be better off with someone else running the O so he hired Saunders. Saunders was then ousted when Gibbs left and then Zorn was hired. JC barely had the chance to get comfortable before each change was made and the reason for the changes were out of his hands.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't think JC was the reasons for the system changes. Gibbs thought the team would be better off with someone else running the O so he hired Saunders. Saunders was then ousted when Gibbs left and then Zorn was hired. JC barely had the chance to get comfortable before each change was made and the reason for the changes were out of his hands.

Saunders playbook was ridiculous, and the terminology was different from what Campbell first learned in his pro career under gibbs but the general schemes and principles were similar. Campbell spent 1 year sitting on a bench under a pure Gibbs system. He then spent two years - the majority of which he spent as a starter - under Saunders. Those systems are systems which (supposedly) Campbell is an ideal fit for - they cover over his weaknesses while taking advantage of his strengths.

Campbell had two years in that system - one which has done very very well for other quarterbacks - yet the team chose to fire Saunders when Gibbs retired. It wasnt an automatic decision to fire Saunders either. Its not like Gibbs and Saunders were tied at the hip. If Campbell had been doing well and showing improvement and looking like he could be a franchise quarterback after two years in an identical system (and three years if you accept the fact that Saunders offense is similar to the one Gibbs ran before), then they would have kept Saunders. They didnt. Why does everyone think now - suddenly, after spending two years in a system that goes against Campbells strengths - is he suddenly going to be a franchise QB? Two years in a system didnt work before. why does everyone think two years is the answer now? People make excuses about how bad the line is now and how that hurts campell... how he doesnt have receivers... his receivers werent any better under Saunders but his O-line sure as hell was. We had a dominant O-line in Campbells 2nd year in this system... and he still failed. Our offense didnt take off in that system until we had a competent QB playing when Campbell got hurt.

Campbell is not a franchise QB. He never will be. He's not horrible though - he's just average. If this franchise made a mistake when Gibbs left, it was not trying to trade Campbell last offseason. Theres no reason to continue this experiment. We need to trade Campbell now, while he still has some value. If not, we'll waste another season, miss out on getting compensation for him, and have to start the process over again next year.

Jay Cutler is - right now - a well above-average WCO quarterback. He has potential to be a perennial pro-bowler. Campbells potential will only get us where Cutler is right now. If we could (hypothetically) trade Campbell, our 13th overall pick, and a conditional pick in next years draft for Cutler... it would be well worth it in the long-term. Short-term, it would suck, but long-term, we need to look beyond Jason Campbell. Guys like Cutler dont come around very often. When they do, you have to do what you can to get them. Just my opinion, I know 99% of you dont agree with me.

A year from now, we'll know who was right. From my position, if i'm wrong, its something i would be happy to be wrong about.

[CRedskinsRule]

My bottom line is really simple: After next year JC will have had his full contract to prove his doubters wrong or right. I believe they are wrong and that he is going to have a standout year, and then you know what doubters/haters will say... oh he only played that way because it was a contract year.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

My bottom line is really simple: After next year JC will have had his full contract to prove his doubters wrong or right. I believe they are wrong and that he is going to have a standout year, and then you know what doubters/haters will say... oh he only played that way because it was a contract year.

I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by celts32

I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.

Screw multiyear contracts, if i was the FO id sign only one year contracts so every year was a contract year. But yeah that would be crazy eh.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by celts32

I can't see anyone questioning JC's character like that...they may question his talent but everyone knows he's a standup guy. Anyone who thinks JC would only give his best in a contract year doesn't have a clue.

Do you know Campbell personally? Then all you know of him is what he does on the field and the persona they project via the media. I am with you that I think JC is a good guy, but then again most of us have been around long enough to realize how much of what is projected to us about most of these guys is more or less propaganda. UNless you really know the guy enough to know what his goals and motives are you are just like anyone else, stuck on relying on the media with regards of forming an opinion on him. That being said, the reality of his present predicament and his future with this team rides on his having a huge year this season. If he has another mediocre performance with his second season of the WCO him and Zorn are gone. Just another fruitless line of Coaching/QB experiments gone bad if they guys don't pull it out. Mr Haynesworth just might save both their jobs.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Do you know Campbell personally? Then all you know of him is what he does on the field and the persona they project via the media. I am with you that I think JC is a good guy, but then again most of us have been around long enough to realize how much of what is projected to us about most of these guys is more or less propaganda. UNless you really know the guy enough to know what his goals and motives are you are just like anyone else, stuck on relying on the media with regards of forming an opinion on him. That being said, the reality of his present predicament and his future with this team rides on his having a huge year this season. If he has another mediocre performance with his second season of the WCO him and Zorn are gone. Just another fruitless line of Coaching/QB experiments gone bad if they guys don't pull it out. Mr Haynesworth just might save both their jobs.

Of course I don't know him. But I watch, read and listen to an incredible amount of football coverage including Sirius NFL radio all day at work and I have never heard anyone say a bad word about JC personally. I guess your opinion is that you can question anyones motives if you don't know them. I don't roll that way though...I choose to believe JC has given his best every day since the redskins drafted him and will continue to do so regardless of his contract situation. Whether or not his best is good enough long term is the question.

[Ruhskins]

I'm not going to say that JC has no talent, I believe he does. However, I find it funny that when D. Hall and Haynesworth were signed, people were going off about character issues left and right about these guys despite their talents (even though IMO these "character issues" were blown out of proportion). Yet when it comes to this whole notion of bringing in Cutler, people are willing to throw character out the window for a player that may have slightly more talent Jason Campbell.

[GTripp0012]

I'll re-state the other point: that if we improve the offense around Campbell, his rating projection instantly goes up. The number I have above assumes that the offense around him is no better than the mean average of the last 2.5 seasons, because that's the only assumption that can be made. If Kelly has a breakout year, Campbell's effortlessly in the 90's with 20+ TDs. If the OL improves and Kelly and Davis both break out, well, now Jason Campbell is a pro bowler.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'll re-state the other point: that if we improve the offense around Campbell, his rating projection instantly goes up. The number I have above assumes that the offense around him is no better than the mean average of the last 2.5 seasons, because that's the only assumption that can be made. If Kelly has a breakout year, Campbell's effortlessly in the 90's with 20+ TDs. If the OL improves and Kelly and Davis both break out, well, now Jason Campbell is a pro bowler.

I'm a JC supporter and have been since he got here. But I think if you went around the NFL and asked NFL defensive coordinators, players and coaches who the better player is they'd probably all go with Cutler. I don't need to look at stats to tell me that he's a bit better right now. Now a lot goes into that. Coaching, stability and the talent around them. Cutler has had all those things in his favor. But as I mentioned before he also seems to get the ball out quicker, has the better release and processes information quicker. I'm really interested in seeing Campbell take his game to the next level, meaning he needs to start being able to win some games for us and carry the offense. Cutler has already done some of those things and now it's time for Campbell to do it.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'm a JC supporter and have been since he got here. But I think if you went around the NFL and asked NFL defensive coordinators, players and coaches who the better player is they'd probably all go with Cutler. I don't need to look at stats to tell me that he's a bit better right now. Now a lot goes into that. Coaching, stability and the talent around them. Cutler has had all those things in his favor. But as I mentioned before he also seems to get the ball out quicker, has the better release and processes information quicker. I'm really interested in seeing Campbell take his game to the next level, meaning he needs to start being able to win some games for us and carry the offense. Cutler has already done some of those things and now it's time for Campbell to do it.

i agree with you too,I'm a JC supporter also but Cutler is better,Cutler had no resemblance of a defense and sometimes had to force the ball a lot more to try and win games,if he had a good defense his ints would not be that high imo

[Ruhskins]

So let me get this straight, you people want to...

- Trade away our #13th pick for another player (after everyone bitches and whines about the FO trading away picks and not "building through the draft"), because I'm sure we'd be losing this pick in some sort of trade.

- Trade for a player who has caused a PR nightmare for his team and probably the reason why it is not seen as a big deal is b/c he's a QB (if he were a receiver, he'd be compared to TO).

- Disrupt the continuity of having our current QB with the same coach and offense, something that hasn't happened in a while (don't tell me the Gibbs and Saunders had the same system).

- Completely disregard JCs performance during the first 8 games when he had a working line and a healthy CP.

- Officially putting Zorn on a short leash, since bringing Cutler here would give us the whole "when is Shanahan getting hired" talk all season.

Once again, I don't know why continuity for more than one or two seasons is undervalued. The only way we should bring someone like Cutler would be if the team decided to completely blow up the team, which that hasn't happened.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So let me get this straight, you people want to...

- Trade away our #13th pick for another player (after everyone bitches and whines about the FO trading away picks and not "building through the draft"), because I'm sure we'd be losing this pick in some sort of trade.

- Trade for a player who has caused a PR nightmare for his team and probably the reason why it is not seen as a big deal is b/c he's a QB (if he were a receiver, he'd be compared to TO).

- Disrupt the continuity of having our current QB with the same coach and offense, something that hasn't happened in a while (don't tell me the Gibbs and Saunders had the same system).

- Completely disregard JCs performance during the first 8 games when he had a working line and a healthy CP.

- Officially putting Zorn on a short leash, since bringing Cutler here would give us the whole "when is Shanahan getting hired" talk all season.

Once again, I don't know why continuity for more than one or two seasons is undervalued. The only way we should bring someone like Cutler would be if the team decided to completely blow up the team, which that hasn't happened.

Preach on brotha

[That Guy]

this is a stupid argument. cutler would want a 100mill contract, we don't have the space. there's no one to restructure for major money, and rabach and thrash won't even make up 3mill if they're both cut. beyond that, you're talking multiple draft picks.

cutler isn't bringing his offense or his WRs with him, and campbell's not the reason we lost last year (OL/WRs).

I don't think campbell is ever going to be one of the greats, but he's good and young and cutler isn't a big enough improvement to shower him/the broncos with crazy picks and money.