The Redskins want to replace Jon Jansen for good

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's not even worth discussing, he said there weren't any at all. Clearly that's wrong. But he still believes what he believes. I guess we should just draft more wide receivers this year

We should but we won't. Instead we will have to make do with assurances that prosperity is right around the corner.

They all know that Thomas is a bust at Redskins Park, they just can't admit it. Kelly has promise, but he's apparently got the knee that won't heal, like Gilbert Arenas or Lavar Arrington. (I think Rocky Mcintosh has it as well) I hope you guys are right, but honestly, do you really think these two will ever amount to anything? If you could trade Thomas and Kelly for 1 second round pick today, wouldn't you do it? I sure would. But who would have them? Who would be almost as stupid as us? (We gave up two second round picks for them) No one, that's who.

To pretend that the defense was the problem last year and to have intelligent people believe it, boggles the mind. "Gee, if the defense had only given up three points we could have beaten Pittsburgh." "If we hadn't given up 16 points to THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPS, our 7 points would have been great". Honestly, who held the Giants to 16 in the first 12 weeks of the season?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

We should but we won't. Instead we will have to make do with assurances that prosperity is right around the corner.

They all know that Thomas is a bust at Redskins Park, they just can't admit it. Kelly has promise, but he's apparently got the knee that won't heal, like Gilbert Arenas or Lavar Arrington. (I think Rocky Mcintosh has it as well) I hope you guys are right, but honestly, do you really think these two will ever amount to anything? If you could trade Thomas and Kelly for 1 second round pick today, wouldn't you do it? I sure would. But who would have them? Who would be almost as stupid as us? (We gave up two second round picks for them) No one, that's who.

To pretend that the defense was the problem last year and to have intelligent people believe it, boggles the mind. "Gee, if the defense had only given up three points we could have beaten Pittsburgh." "If we hadn't given up 16 points to THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPS, our 7 points would have been great". Honestly, who held the Giants to 16 in the first 12 weeks of the season?

What's w/ all the negativity surrounding Thomas/Kelly. First of all, have you watched vids of Thomas w/ the ball in his hand? His athleticism is off the chart... I'll say right now that after Moss this kid will be the most explosive player on offense WHEN HE HAS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. And that's the crux of it. He never learned to run routes and, oh what a surprise, has shown poor hands. HIXON! Who's f'ing job is it to see that the 2 rookies in your group 1) take the off-season serious 2) learn the playbook like the back if their hand 3) learn to run crisp routes. What's the problem... Hixon has too many other responsibilities. RIDICULOUS. Meanwhile Kelly was an excellent route runner in college and had great hands... gets to Redskin Park and looks like he's a basketball player in football pads.

... please don't throw our rookies under the bus when their direct coach has never developed an NFL player in his entire career. The only real mistake the FO has made this year, and it's a huge one IMO, is keeping Hixon on the staff.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

What's w/ all the negativity surrounding Thomas/Kelly. First of all, have you watched vids of Thomas w/ the ball in his hand? His athleticism is off the chart... I'll say right now that after Moss this kid will be the most explosive player on offense WHEN HE HAS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. And that's the crux of it. He never learned to run routes and, oh what a surprise, has shown poor hands. HIXON! Who's f'ing job is it to see that the 2 rookies in your group 1) take the off-season serious 2) learn the playbook like the back if their hand 3) learn to run crisp routes. What's the problem... Hixon has too many other responsibilities. RIDICULOUS. Meanwhile Kelly was an excellent route runner in college and had great hands... gets to Redskin Park and looks like he's a basketball player in football pads.

... please don't throw our rookies under the bus when their direct coach has never developed an NFL player in his entire career. The only real mistake the FO has made this year, and it's a huge one IMO, is keeping Hixon on the staff.

I normally agree with your analysis' of the situation, but the assumption that Hixon is all that is wrong with the development of our receivers, and using youtube type evidence to support it is something I strongly disagree with.

There is clearly no objective reason to believe that Hixon has any control over the long-term development over the young receivers. He's one of many coaches that these gentlemen have had over the life of their football careers, and it's a self-serving argument to ignore their development until last year in considering why a player with "youtube" skills and combine numbers could possibly ever bust.

Furthermore, it's probably very, very wrong. To make the assumption that there's anything Hixon should have done that would have changed their plight...if not wrong, it's something that you can't pretend to know from the information that we have as fans.

You've heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation", well, this is you ignoring that really, really obviously.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I normally agree with your analysis' of the situation, but the assumption that Hixon is all that is wrong with the development of our receivers, and using youtube type evidence to support it is something I strongly disagree with.

There is clearly no objective reason to believe that Hixon has any control over the long-term development over the young receivers. He's one of many coaches that these gentlemen have had over the life of their football careers, and it's a self-serving argument to ignore their development until last year in considering why a player with "youtube" skills and combine numbers could possibly ever bust.

Furthermore, it's probably very, very wrong. To make the assumption that there's anything Hixon should have done that would have changed their plight...if not wrong, it's something that you can't pretend to know from the information that we have as fans.

You've heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation", well, this is you ignoring that really, really obviously.

WTH are "youtube" skills... sort of sounds like computer hacking and nunchuck skills LOL.

Anyway, tell me this about the plight of Thomas/Hixon. Who in the franchise is primarily charged w/ the task of making sure these guys 1) take the off-season serious, even as rooks 2) learn the playbook 3) learn to run crisp routes as the NFL requires. From the standpoint of basic common sense I have to believe a billion dollar franchise is going to assign someone the task. I'm totally, completely willing to admit my ignorance of franchise structure but it seemed common sense that the position coach, Hixon, would be charged w/ this task.

Last, am I factually wrong in saying Hixon has never developed an NFL receiver? I'm tempted to go a bit further and state he's never even improved one, as i believe guys like Moss, Caldwell, McCardell, and Thrash had just as much success prior to working w/ Hixon. (ARL i leave out because he wasn't a starting receiver for Pitt so it seems a lousy comparison) My bottom line is i don't for the life of me see what there is to defend about this guy... he's done literally nothing.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

WTH are "youtube" skills... sort of sounds like computer hacking and nunchuck skills LOL.

Anyway, tell me this about the plight of Thomas/Hixon. Who in the franchise is primarily charged w/ the task of making sure these guys 1) take the off-season serious, even as rooks 2) learn the playbook 3) learn to run crisp routes as the NFL requires. From the standpoint of basic common sense I have to believe a billion dollar franchise is going to assign someone the task. I'm totally, completely willing to admit my ignorance of franchise structure but it seemed common sense that the position coach, Hixon, would be charged w/ this task.

Last, am I factually wrong in saying Hixon has never developed an NFL receiver? I'm tempted to go a bit further and state he's never even improved one, as i believe guys like Moss, Caldwell, McCardell, and Thrash had just as much success prior to working w/ Hixon. (ARL i leave out because he wasn't a starting receiver for Pitt so it seems a lousy comparison) My bottom line is i don't for the life of me see what there is to defend about this guy... he's done literally nothing.

I think your opinion that Hixon is not a good receivers coach and that we shouldn't have retained him is fine. I'm not defending Hixon per se. I don't necessarily agree either, but the opinion that we could do better seems legit.

The obvious answer to the question you've posed here is: Thomas and Kelly. Duh. I think Hixon's part of the equation, but your position only makes sense if Hixon is the ENTIRE equation, in which case, why draft at all?

I mentioned before, I don't think this is ignorance on your part, I think it's simply confusing correlation (Hixon) with casuation (who knows?).

Why does one person HAVE to be responsible for the lack of development with the receivers? Why is each individual not held accountable for his development in your eyes? What is the reasoning behind assuming that only Hixon is responsible?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

1Why does one person HAVE to be responsible for the lack of development with the receivers? 2Why is each individual not held accountable for his development in your eyes? 3What is the reasoning behind assuming that only Hixon is responsible?

To answer your questions in order:

1) we drafted Thomas after 1 year of college. The organization spent millions on Thomas/Kelly and invested the future of our offense in their hands. They knew both would need development. We know we have an organization that spends Millions on top level talent and Millions on top level coaching across the board. We should have a WR coach who has at least proven he can HELP a young receiver develop.

2) as in college, life, professional career: if you have a proven teacher, who can guide you it helps. Again, Thomas was a known young player who had not had all the training college could provide so his learning curve was steeper than most. That is not to absolve Thomas/Kelly, they should show improvement on their own, but if the positions coach does not improve the rate of learning then let the position coach go, and have a peer to peer driven development program (obviously I am not advocating this approach)

3) I don't think ONLY Hixon is responsible or that he is even an impedement, simply that he is not the best we could have, and we should try, given our investment last year, to give our players the BEST available coach and coaching assistants out there.