Glaring Need / Roster

The Goat · 03-26-2009, 11:17 PM

13 may be too high to take an LB unless we feel a very special player is available. Obviously Curry will be long gone by then; however, I feel Rey fits that bill. He is the only other LB worthy of the 13th overall pick IMO. Rey could well be on the board at 13, but it's likely either Oher or A. Smith will also be there... I mean seriously a WON'T complain about getting any one of those guys.

... I do think there's room for debate about the draft depth of LB talent vs. OT talent. Personally I believe there's way, way more OT talent in the draft. Beyond Curry, Rey, Cushing (who i don't want) I don't see any more impact starters, though Matthews, English and Laurinaitis may be close. Meanwhile I see 4 immediate impact OTs in the draft and probably 2 or 3 more guys who probably will be able to start on opening day. The implications of all this should be more OT talent available in the market post draft, as teams jettison overpaid vets for young talent. I'm not advocating Rey over Oher or Smith necessarily just telling it the way I see it.

One more thing... why do some people think a college DE will have luck as an OLB, in our system especially, when we require our guys to cover well and basically be very dynamic? I've heard a shit-ton of comments like "Rey can't cover" or "Rey is only suited to play the middle." First of all the scouting reports say Rey covers very well, and our FO has said it thinks he could play OLB. But tell me how a DE, who's probably had zero experience covering much of anything, will somehow be more capable than this stud who's been doing it for the last four years?

skinsnut · 03-27-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

more OT talent available in the market post draft, as teams jettison overpaid vets for young talent.

hmm...this is an interesting point.
However, the argument will be....they will cut "older" OTs and that is what we are trying to get away from.

But I certainly see this as a good argument

redskingrove · 03-27-2009, 11:31 AM

Let's look at our current starting roster...LT is Samuels (old and injury prone), Dockery and Thomas at G (Thomas is long in the tooth also), Heyer/Jansen at RT (one is inexperienced and the other old and injury prone, Rabach is our C (old also and will be tested and battered more often since teams are going to 3-4 schemes). We currently have no viable backup for the C position which is the main cog in the offensive production gears. Our defense was good last year without the current free-agent acquisitions for 2009. If we don't bolster the O-line, and any of our aged starting veterans go down, we will be stuck running the same quick pass routes that cause defenses to tee off in the box on us. Portis will be banged up from stacked boxes and we will be mediocre in our record once again. Yes, we are rebuilding somewhat right now, but O-line is the best place to start in the draft to even the keel with team production (points put on the board). We lost several games last year that were by a TD or less. Add those games into our win column from better offensive production and we are in the playoffs. It all starts with adequate protection in the run or pass games. A defensive pick at 13th doesn't make all that much sense when you consider that no matter what the defense does to get a team off the feild for our offense, if we can't move the ball effectively we will struggle to win. The defense will be on the field longer and more times and get fatigued resulting in tough losses. My vote is Offensive drafts first.

GridIron26 · 03-27-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redskingrove

Let's look at our current starting roster...LT is Samuels (old and injury prone), Dockery and Thomas at G (Thomas is long in the tooth also), Heyer/Jansen at RT (one is inexperienced and the other old and injury prone, Rabach is our C (old also and will be tested and battered more often since teams are going to 3-4 schemes). We currently have no viable backup for the C position which is the main cog in the offensive production gears. Our defense was good last year without the current free-agent acquisitions for 2009. If we don't bolster the O-line, and any of our aged starting veterans go down, we will be stuck running the same quick pass routes that cause defenses to tee off in the box on us. Portis will be banged up from stacked boxes and we will be mediocre in our record once again. Yes, we are rebuilding somewhat right now, but O-line is the best place to start in the draft to even the keel with team production (points put on the board). We lost several games last year that were by a TD or less. Add those games into our win column from better offensive production and we are in the playoffs. It all starts with adequate protection in the run or pass games. A defensive pick at 13th doesn't make all that much sense when you consider that no matter what the defense does to get a team off the feild for our offense, if we can't move the ball effectively we will struggle to win. The defense will be on the field longer and more times and get fatigued resulting in tough losses. My vote is Offensive drafts first.

C. Samuels is injury prone? I find that hard to believe, as I believe last year was his first injury that forced him out from playing? Anyone who knows for sure, please correct me as I am sure I'm wrong but I'm absolutely sure that Samuels isn't injury prone..

Just like some said, I believe that DE is one of glaring needs but it is not imperative for us to address the position this year.. We managed well with Evans last season; we are going to manage it well with Wynn (and maybe Phillips?), and along with 3 others such as Chris Wilson, Buzbee and Jackson.. They are on roster list for a reason, and it is not to just to fill in #2 and #3 spot.. If something happens to #1, we are suppose to go to #2 and then to #3.. Therefore, we should use #13 pick to draft OT - whichever's the best left on the board (I'm really huge fan of Mack but I have to be realistic and OT is significant, compared to C for this season). I would understand completely if Redskins decide to trade up into 2nd rd to draft LB but I'm hoping that we would stand pat and keep all of our draft picks. Then we would be able to use other picks to pick capable back-ups and maybe starters in future (such as C and nickel CB)

The idea of moving Chris Wilson is really intriguing (SmootSmack brought up the idea, I believe?) - CW and Jason Taylor are virtually alike physically- Jason Taylor is 6-6 and weighs 244, while CW is 6-4 and weighs 247.. Obviously the question is, do CW possess the coverage skills? I'm really hoping that Redskins would try do this kind of experiment this year..

However, next off-season; we MUST address DE, preferably through draft, using #1 pick or #2 pick.

skinsnut · 03-27-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GridIron26

The idea of moving Chris Wilson is really intriguing (SmootSmack brought up the idea, I believe?) - CW and Jason Taylor are virtually alike physically- Jason Taylor is 6-6 and weighs 244, while CW is 6-4 and weighs 247.. Obviously the question is, do CW possess the coverage skills? I'm really hoping that Redskins would try do this kind of experiment this year..

Wilson is not a linebacker...he is a pass rushing specialist...that is all.
You don't want him in coverage if you can help it.
He has always played the line.

It is one thing to have an OLB play on the line...it is quite another to take a DE and put him in coverage full time. They can experiment, but this aint a college kid, hes been playing pro ball on the line for a few years now.
If he could cover, he'd be great because he can certainly rush the passer.

SeanTaylor21SKINS · 03-28-2009, 10:29 PM

I'm hoping Brian Orakpo will still be on the board. Just look at the guy, he is a beast.

YouTube - DE Brian Orakpo Highlights Texas 2008

If we don't get a DE in the first round. I would love to make Lawrence Sidbury a Redskin.

YouTube - Lawrence Sidbury - Richmond Spiders' DE...

Trample the Elderly · 03-28-2009, 10:49 PM

We'd all love to have Orakpo but he'll be gone. We've DEs for this year and could pick up a Buzbee caliber type player with undrafted guys.

Sidbury is another story. I agree he is a good guy to pick up but will he be able to play the position for years to come? He's not a high round pick even though his stock has risen on many websites and around the draft conversations currently going on. Magazine had him as a late rounder months ago so he's worthy of a pick and could probably get him.

That would fill the glaring need that I started this thread over. Since Vinny said in his rescent interview, or implied, that RT was Heyers to lose, we can only assume that the O-line is going to be addressed in another way. This could also signal that they are going to get a OLB with the 13th.

It'd be a wasted endeavor to speculate what they're really going to do. As much as many bad mouth him, Vinny isn't stupid. I don't think he's going to broadcast the team's intentions to the league.

With our recent additions and with the signing of Wynn and (Daniels (Rumor)) the need is OLB. Yes we do need O-line help, but if we had to play today we'd be short an OLB. So who do we get? Do we wait for the draft? Do we pick up a FA? Are there any quality guys left?

Trample the Elderly · 03-28-2009, 11:02 PM

As it stands right now. Some of these guys are camp fodder but most have played for us or we're scheduled to play and have been signed. I've placed these guys here according to who I think is going to do what next season; it's not official. I have left out a few guys who I think they might cut (Thrash).

LWR: Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly
TE: Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Todd Yoder
LT: Chris Samuels, Devon Clark
LG: Derrick Dockery, Chad Rhinehardt
C: Casey Raback, Will Montgomery
RG: Randy Thomas, Anthony Batiste
RT: Stephon Heyer, John Jansen
RWR: Antwaan Randal El, Devon Thomas
QB: Jason Campbell, Colt Brennan, Todd Collins
FB: Mike Sellers
RB: Clinton Portis, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright

CB: DeAngelo Hall, Fred Smoot, Byron Westbrook
LDE: Rynaldo Wynn, Rob Jackson, Alex Buzbee
LDT: Cornelius Griffin, Lorenzo Alexander
RDT: Albert Haynesworth, Antony Montgomery
RDE: Andre Carter, Chris Wilson
CB: Carlos Rogers, Justin Tryon
LOLB: Alfred Fincher ?
ILB: London Fletcher, H.B. Blades
ROLB: Rocky McIntosh, Tyson Smith?
SS: Laron Landry, Mike Green
FS: Chris Horton, Reed Doughty, Kareem Moore

KR: Rock Cartwright, Devon Thomas, Malcolm Kelly
K: Suan Suisham, H: Zac Atterberry
P: Zac Atterberry
LS: Ethan Albright
PR: Malcolm Kelly, Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly

Feel free to chop it up if you see a f-up.

Paintrain · 03-29-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

As it stands right now. Some of these guys are camp fodder but most have played for us or we're scheduled to play and have been signed. I've placed these guys here according to who I think is going to do what next season; it's not official. I have left out a few guys who I think they might cut (Thrash).

LWR: Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly
TE: Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Todd Yoder
LT: Chris Samuels, Devon Clark
LG: Derrick Dockery, Chad Rhinehardt
C: Casey Raback, Will Montgomery
RG: Randy Thomas, Anthony Batiste
RT: Stephon Heyer, John Jansen
RWR: Antwaan Randal El, Devon Thomas
QB: Jason Campbell, Colt Brennan, Todd Collins
FB: Mike Sellers
RB: Clinton Portis, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright

CB: DeAngelo Hall, Fred Smoot, Byron Westbrook
LDE: Rynaldo Wynn, Rob Jackson, Alex Buzbee
LDT: Cornelius Griffin, Lorenzo Alexander
RDT: Albert Haynesworth, Antony Montgomery
RDE: Andre Carter, Chris Wilson
CB: Carlos Rogers, Justin Tryon
LOLB: Alfred Fincher ?
ILB: London Fletcher, H.B. Blades
ROLB: Rocky McIntosh, Tyson Smith?
SS: Laron Landry, Mike Green
FS: Chris Horton, Reed Doughty, Kareem Moore

KR: Rock Cartwright, Devon Thomas, Malcolm Kelly
K: Suan Suisham, H: Zac Atterberry
P: Zac Atterberry
LS: Ethan Albright
PR: Malcolm Kelly, Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly

Feel free to chop it up if you see a f-up.

I don't see Brennan overtaking Collins as the backup this season. We are about to re-sign Daniels for LDE. Since when is Kelly a return man? You've got him on KR and PR (twice). Did you mean Thomas in one of those spots?

Trample the Elderly · 03-29-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't see Brennan overtaking Collins as the backup this season. We are about to re-sign Daniels for LDE. Since when is Kelly a return man? You've got him on KR and PR (twice). Did you mean Thomas in one of those spots?

As I said, if you see something that you don't agree with then change it how you see fit. Kelly or was it the other WR needs to be a return man because the other option is James Thrash. Daniels isn't resigned yet.
You miss my point even though you knowingly or unknowingly reinforced it. We have plenty of DEs now and the glaring need / hole is OLB.

03-28-2009, 10:49 PM	#7
Trample the Elderly Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Three Chopt Virginia Age: 48 Posts: 2,906	Re: Glaring Need / Roster We'd all love to have Orakpo but he'll be gone. We've DEs for this year and could pick up a Buzbee caliber type player with undrafted guys. Sidbury is another story. I agree he is a good guy to pick up but will he be able to play the position for years to come? He's not a high round pick even though his stock has risen on many websites and around the draft conversations currently going on. Magazine had him as a late rounder months ago so he's worthy of a pick and could probably get him. That would fill the glaring need that I started this thread over. Since Vinny said in his rescent interview, or implied, that RT was Heyers to lose, we can only assume that the O-line is going to be addressed in another way. This could also signal that they are going to get a OLB with the 13th. It'd be a wasted endeavor to speculate what they're really going to do. As much as many bad mouth him, Vinny isn't stupid. I don't think he's going to broadcast the team's intentions to the league. With our recent additions and with the signing of Wynn and (Daniels (Rumor)) the need is OLB. Yes we do need O-line help, but if we had to play today we'd be short an OLB. So who do we get? Do we wait for the draft? Do we pick up a FA? Are there any quality guys left? Last edited by Trample the Elderly; 03-28-2009 at 11:07 PM.

03-28-2009, 11:02 PM	#8
Trample the Elderly Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Three Chopt Virginia Age: 48 Posts: 2,906	Re: Glaring Need / Roster As it stands right now. Some of these guys are camp fodder but most have played for us or we're scheduled to play and have been signed. I've placed these guys here according to who I think is going to do what next season; it's not official. I have left out a few guys who I think they might cut (Thrash). LWR: Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly TE: Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Todd Yoder LT: Chris Samuels, Devon Clark LG: Derrick Dockery, Chad Rhinehardt C: Casey Raback, Will Montgomery RG: Randy Thomas, Anthony Batiste RT: Stephon Heyer, John Jansen RWR: Antwaan Randal El, Devon Thomas QB: Jason Campbell, Colt Brennan, Todd Collins FB: Mike Sellers RB: Clinton Portis, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright CB: DeAngelo Hall, Fred Smoot, Byron Westbrook LDE: Rynaldo Wynn, Rob Jackson, Alex Buzbee LDT: Cornelius Griffin, Lorenzo Alexander RDT: Albert Haynesworth, Antony Montgomery RDE: Andre Carter, Chris Wilson CB: Carlos Rogers, Justin Tryon LOLB: Alfred Fincher ? ILB: London Fletcher, H.B. Blades ROLB: Rocky McIntosh, Tyson Smith? SS: Laron Landry, Mike Green FS: Chris Horton, Reed Doughty, Kareem Moore KR: Rock Cartwright, Devon Thomas, Malcolm Kelly K: Suan Suisham, H: Zac Atterberry P: Zac Atterberry LS: Ethan Albright PR: Malcolm Kelly, Santana Moss, Malcolm Kelly Feel free to chop it up if you see a f-up.

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03-26-2009, 11:17 PM	#1
The Goat Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,662	Re: Glaring Need / Roster 13 may be too high to take an LB unless we feel a very special player is available. Obviously Curry will be long gone by then; however, I feel Rey fits that bill. He is the only other LB worthy of the 13th overall pick IMO. Rey could well be on the board at 13, but it's likely either Oher or A. Smith will also be there... I mean seriously a WON'T complain about getting any one of those guys. ... I do think there's room for debate about the draft depth of LB talent vs. OT talent. Personally I believe there's way, way more OT talent in the draft. Beyond Curry, Rey, Cushing (who i don't want) I don't see any more impact starters, though Matthews, English and Laurinaitis may be close. Meanwhile I see 4 immediate impact OTs in the draft and probably 2 or 3 more guys who probably will be able to start on opening day. The implications of all this should be more OT talent available in the market post draft, as teams jettison overpaid vets for young talent. I'm not advocating Rey over Oher or Smith necessarily just telling it the way I see it. One more thing... why do some people think a college DE will have luck as an OLB, in our system especially, when we require our guys to cover well and basically be very dynamic? I've heard a shit-ton of comments like "Rey can't cover" or "Rey is only suited to play the middle." First of all the scouting reports say Rey covers very well, and our FO has said it thinks he could play OLB. But tell me how a DE, who's probably had zero experience covering much of anything, will somehow be more capable than this stud who's been doing it for the last four years? __________________ 24-34

03-27-2009, 11:31 AM	#3
redskingrove Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 57	Re: Glaring Need / Roster Let's look at our current starting roster...LT is Samuels (old and injury prone), Dockery and Thomas at G (Thomas is long in the tooth also), Heyer/Jansen at RT (one is inexperienced and the other old and injury prone, Rabach is our C (old also and will be tested and battered more often since teams are going to 3-4 schemes). We currently have no viable backup for the C position which is the main cog in the offensive production gears. Our defense was good last year without the current free-agent acquisitions for 2009. If we don't bolster the O-line, and any of our aged starting veterans go down, we will be stuck running the same quick pass routes that cause defenses to tee off in the box on us. Portis will be banged up from stacked boxes and we will be mediocre in our record once again. Yes, we are rebuilding somewhat right now, but O-line is the best place to start in the draft to even the keel with team production (points put on the board). We lost several games last year that were by a TD or less. Add those games into our win column from better offensive production and we are in the playoffs. It all starts with adequate protection in the run or pass games. A defensive pick at 13th doesn't make all that much sense when you consider that no matter what the defense does to get a team off the feild for our offense, if we can't move the ball effectively we will struggle to win. The defense will be on the field longer and more times and get fatigued resulting in tough losses. My vote is Offensive drafts first.

Glaring Need / Roster

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