Mark Sanchez at 13th?

[Dirtbag59]

I think I now know what the Front Office thinks about our line.

C Samuals - The best, will continue to be dominant
D. Dockery - Paired with Samuals will help us get a nice push as well as help Rabach out against Nose Tackles
C. Rabach - Buges likes him so that's good enough for everyone else
R. Thomas - Apparently he's healthy now
S. Heyer - Hopefully fear of loosing his best chance to play in the league will force him to fix his technique once and for all

C. Rhinehart - He'll develop
J. Jansen - Bad all year starter, great backup
J. Fabini - Good Backup
Justin G. - Well someone needs to play backup at center.

And for anyone curious the following have expiring contracts after this year. Though I'd be amazed if some of them hit the open market

- Marcus McNeil
- Michael Roos
- Eric Winston
- Alex Barron
- Winston Justice
- Jeremy Trueblood

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I think I now know what the Front Office thinks about our line.

C Samuals - The best, will continue to be dominant
D. Dockery - Paired with Samuals will help us get a nice push as well as help Rabach out against Nose Tackles
C. Rabach - Buges likes him so that's good enough for everyone else
R. Thomas - Apparently he's healthy now
S. Heyer - Hopefully fear of loosing his best chance to play in the league will force him to fix his technique once and for all

C. Rhinehart - He'll develop
J. Jansen - Bad all year starter, great backup
J. Fabini - Good Backup
Justin G. - Well someone needs to play backup at center.

And for anyone curious the following have expiring contracts after this year. Though I'd be amazed if some of them hit the open market

- Marcus McNeil
- Michael Roos
- Eric Winston
- Alex Barron
- Winston Justice
- Jeremy Trueblood

That post actually eases my mind regarding our O-Line. I know we still need some infusion of youth and top tier talent. But we aren't forced into reaching fo a guy, like Oher, instead of drafting best player available. Mauualuga!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If the guy you are trading up for is a QB who you can build a team around, then its absolutely worth it. If he isn't, then its a colossal mistake and you will be worse off than you were before. Its an enormous risk - one that would push the skins in a definative direction: Towards joining the leagues elite (Pats, Colts, Giants, Steelers) or bottom-dwellers (Lions, Raiders, Bengals). In my opinion, its a risk worth taking. If it fails, then atleast it ensures we'll be rid of Vinny Cerrato once and for all. Not making the move ensures the skins remain what they have been for nearly 20 years: mediocre. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of mediocre.

I think you've brought this notion up in the past, haven't you? This idea of "If things go the way we hope, we'll fail so miserably changes will have to be made." That's a curious way to think.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

However, if we accept DS and then find a way to "work around" him, then we can start making some progress.

"We" don't have any say in working with or around DS. It's his team and he'll do whatever he wants. All we can do is post on message boards or make the decision to attend/watch or not the games and buy/not buy merchandise.

This team has been in search of a franchise QB for years. If we get a franchise QB, and keep the same system for 3-4 years, then we have plenty of time to build the pieces around him. It would be nice if we had done that with JC after we drafted him but we didnt. He's damaged goods and and if we don't cut ties with him this year, we certainly will next year. Its time to move on.

The Redskins have been searching for a franchise QB since Theisman's leg was broken by LT. JC isn't damaged goods, that's ridiculous. How about we don't wait 3-4 years and compete now.

No, my statement is not wrong. yours shows that you dont remember a thing from last season.....

Round and round we go.....but you have NEVER in any thread about JC given an answer/justification as to why JC was on a Pro Bowl pace early in 2008 and then he just magically, by himself, started to suck in the second half. Anyone whose judgement on JC isn't clouded would say the OL was the problem, but you've discounted that before, so what's the answer?

Not making the move ensures the skins remain what they have been for nearly 20 years: mediocre. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of mediocre.

Not if JC continues on his current pace of improvement and his QB rating jumps another 7 points this season, then we'll certainly not be mediocre. Fix the OL and the offense will be fine. If you know anything about football it all starts there. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees and the odds of top ten picks at QB being busts is actually higher than the pick being successful. For every Peyton Manning, there are more Akili Smith / Alex Smith / J. Russells / M. Leinarts. Not a risk worth taking on a player with one good year in college.

[skinsfan69]

I'm kind of shocked at how MS's stock has just sky rocketed. I know he's a team leader, he's pretty talented and he's a big rah rah gym rat kind of guy. But if I were to compare him to Carson Palmer ( when Palmer was coming out) there is not comparison. Palmer when healthy is just a top 5 NFL QB. I just don't think Sanchez is in that same ballpark talent wise. If he was I wouldn't have a problem with the FO going after a talented player like that. But to me Sanchez is a 2nd round player. Campbell needs to improve but he isn't the big weak link on this team and everyone knows it. I'm just wondering if this Sanchez hype is more about marketing or is it about winning?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you've brought this notion up in the past, haven't you? This idea of "If things go the way we hope, we'll fail so miserably changes will have to be made." That's a curious way to think.

I was just trying to look at the positive aspect of even the worst-case scenario (Vinny being gone for good). Trading up to draft Sanchez would be a huge risk, but i think its a risk worth taking because of the potential rewards (building around a franchise QB and becoming an elite team). If Snyder drafted Sanchez, then fired zorn and brought in Gruden or Cowher in 2010, it would be a monumental failure. Snyder would need to ensure that Zorn (or if he had to make a change, Shanahan or Holmgren) kept the same (or very similar) system in place - otherwise Sanchez would just become Patrick Ramsey 3.0 (Campbell is 2.0).

Originally Posted by Gtripp0012

You just don't seem to understand that taking Sanchez doesn't change a goddamn thing. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. WE STILL NEED TO IMPROVE THE BLOCKING AND HOPE FOR A QUICK DEVELOPMENT OF THE WIDE RECEIVERS WE DRAFTED. The only thing that changes is now we have uncertainty at the QB position. Instead of "How good can Jason Campbell be?" the question becomes "Can Mark Sanchez even play in the NFL?"

Ultimately, BHA, your disdain for Jason Campbell is causing you to say totally ridiculous things about the Quarterback position. There is no "disagreement" here. Your position just starts and ends with the desire to have anyone else but Campbell under center by 2010. To you, that has become more important than winning.

I have NOTHING against Campbell. I have said over and over again that we wouldnt be having this discussion if we hadnt brought in Zorn and the WCO. Campbell would be lightyears ahead of where he is now and in a system that covered his flaws and played to his strenghts... Campbell would probably be a pro-bowler now if we had kept the Gibbs/Saunders system here... but we didnt. I am positive Campbell will never become a franchise QB in this system. So, I have a dilema - either the system goes, or Campbell does. I pick Campbell to go, if, for no other reason, than i think he might go postal on everyone at Redskins park right before his head explodes. I pick the system to stay, if for no other reason than it'll prevent all the other offensive players wont have to learn anything new this offseason either... thus furthering their development. To reiterate, i dont hate Campbell. I hate the "match" Snyderatto made last offseason. Campbell is a square peg. Zorns system is a round hole - it aint ever gonna fit.

I find it strange that you and other people point to Campbells improvement in some areas as reasons to stick with him... yet you want to give up on guys like Stephon Heyer, who have also shown steady improvement year after year... Why not have faith that Heyer will develop into a solid, if not elite, RT?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I was just trying to look at the positive aspect of even the worst-case scenario (Vinny being gone for good). Trading up to draft Sanchez would be a huge risk, but i think its a risk worth taking because of the potential rewards (building around a franchise QB and becoming an elite team). If Snyder drafted Sanchez, then fired zorn and brought in Gruden or Cowher in 2010, it would be a monumental failure. Snyder would need to ensure that Zorn (or if he had to make a change, Shanahan or Holmgren) kept the same (or very similar) system in place - otherwise Sanchez would just become Patrick Ramsey 3.0 (Campbell is 2.0).



I have NOTHING against Campbell. I have said over and over again that we wouldnt be having this discussion if we hadnt brought in Zorn and the WCO. Campbell would be lightyears ahead of where he is now and in a system that covered his flaws and played to his strenghts... Campbell would probably be a pro-bowler now if we had kept the Gibbs/Saunders system here... but we didnt. I am positive Campbell will never become a franchise QB in this system. So, I have a dilema - either the system goes, or Campbell does. I pick Campbell to go, if, for no other reason, than i think he might go postal on everyone at Redskins park right before his head explodes. I pick the system to stay, if for no other reason than it'll prevent all the other offensive players wont have to learn anything new this offseason either... thus furthering their development. To reiterate, i dont hate Campbell. I hate the "match" Snyderatto made last offseason. Campbell is a square peg. Zorns system is a round hole - it aint ever gonna fit.

I find it strange that you and other people point to Campbells improvement in some areas as reasons to stick with him... yet you want to give up on guys like Stephon Heyer, who have also shown steady improvement year after year... Why not have faith that Heyer will develop into a solid, if not elite, RT?

1) Does it bother you at all that you're alone in the assumption that Jason Campbell's skill set doesn't play in the WCO? You're okay assuming that your assessment is sufficient to warrant dismissal?

2) It's a legitimate question regarding Heyer, but I'm not sure I'd say we've seen steady improvement. He came into the league with good pass blocking fundamentals, and he still has no idea how to properly execute a toss play.

Ultimately though, Heyer is a different issue altogether, because Jason Campbell was a well polished first round quarterback out of college, and Stephon Heyer was a developmental tackle who went undrafted.

I'm all for playing the young guys on this team, but he has to at least prove he can be the best option first. Jason Campbell has already proven he's the best option we have right now. There's no veteran, established QB on the trading block who would be a significant upgrade over Campbell. Therefore, improving on him is a non-issue.

Again, nobody thinks that Sanchez would be an improvement over Campbell. I do think some people are suggesting we start rebuilding with a QB in this draft, and go all-young...except we just signed a 28-year old DT to an 100 million dollar contract, so, it's a little late for that.

I'll throw a question back at you: If the Redskins draft Sanchez with the 13th pick and they cut Todd Collins (and not Jason Campbell), who would you start on opening day: Campbell, Brennan, or Sanchez?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I find it strange that you and other people point to Campbells improvement in some areas as reasons to stick with him... yet you want to give up on guys like Stephon Heyer, who have also shown steady improvement year after year... Why not have faith that Heyer will develop into a solid, if not elite, RT?

I guess it's the same way we find it strange that you point to Heyer's improvement in some areas as reasons to stick with him... yet you want to give up on guys like Jason Campbell, who have also shown steady improvement year after year... Why not have faith that Campbell will develop into a solid, if not elite, QB?

[MTK]

Bottom line here is folks, a new QB no matter who he is isn't going to fix the other issues we have. You build a team from the inside out. Build up the lines and build a strong supporting cast and you can put a decent QB back there and get quality production and win games. Put a good QB behind a bad line with no help around him, and he's going to play to the level of the rest of the offense, simple as that.

It amazes me that some still can't see the writing on the wall. Last year through the first 8 games JC was getting the protection he needed and the rest of the offense was playing well, and what do you know JC was playing well. In the final 8 games he was under pressure and the rest of the offense crumbled around him, and surprise surprise he struggled. It doesn't get any more obvious to me what the issues were.

If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Bottom line here is folks, a new QB no matter who he is isn't going to fix the other issues we have. You build a team from the inside out. Build up the lines and build a strong supporting cast and you can put a decent QB back there and get quality production and win games. Put a good QB behind a bad line with no help around him, and he's going to play to the level of the rest of the offense, simple as that.

It amazes me that some still can't see the writing on the wall. Last year through the first 8 games JC was getting the protection he needed and the rest of the offense was playing well, and what do you know JC was playing well. In the final 8 games he was under pressure and the rest of the offense crumbled around him, and surprise surprise he struggled. It doesn't get any more obvious to me what the issues were.

If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door.

That's EXACTLY how I feel. I would never abandon the Redskins completely, but to say my interest in the coming season would wane, would be putting it mildly. It's hard to pull for an idiot. (D.S.)

[drew54]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

That's EXACTLY how I feel. I would never abandon the Redskins completely, but to say my interest in the coming season would wane, would be putting it mildly. It's hard to pull for an idiot. (D.S.)

I am right there with Matty and 53Fan.

Although I did watch my roomate, who is a Falcons fan, freak out about Matt Ryan, only to eat crow later.

But I feel that after ten years of this stuff, I have about had enough of the roller coaster ride.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Bottom line here is folks, a new QB no matter who he is isn't going to fix the other issues we have. You build a team from the inside out. Build up the lines and build a strong supporting cast and you can put a decent QB back there and get quality production and win games. Put a good QB behind a bad line with no help around him, and he's going to play to the level of the rest of the offense, simple as that.

Super Bowl Winning QB Mark Rypien agrees

If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door.

Great...then what fan site would I go to? I wouldn't be so down if they drafted him at 13. It's trading up to get him that would concern me.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Great...then what fan site would I go to? I wouldn't be so down if they drafted him at 13. It's trading up to get him that would concern me.

Y Hello Der

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Agreed 100%, one glimmer of hope, we did bring in J. Russell an nothing happened there.

Yeah but Snyder didn't love Russell (aka Shaq jr without the flair). Apparently with Sanchez (who seems to be the anti-Leinart in that he doesn't let partying get in the way of football) Snyder has found his guy. Honestly I'm kind of intrigued, especially with that quick release and mobility thats part of his pocket awareness, but at the same time I would love to see the team get a starting quality Tackle.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Super Bowl Winning QB Mark Rypien agrees

How many superbowls did he win again? What team did he become a franchise QB for? what team was able to build around him for continued long-term success?

If you want to luck into a "one hit wonder" superbowl appearance and have a career of mediocrity, thats what Jason Campbell may give you. If you want continued success, we need to look elsewhere.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

How many superbowls did he win again? What team did he become a franchise QB for? what team was able to build around him for continued long-term success?

If you want to luck into a "one hit wonder" superbowl appearance and have a career of mediocrity, thats what Jason Campbell may give you. If you want continued success, we need to look elsewhere.

Do you even have a job? My god the amount of time you spend on here is crazy. What the hell where you doing with yourself in Nov of 2008?