Broncos to trade Cutler

[Paintrain]

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

Yes, good teams build thru the draft, but guess what-so do BAD teams! The Lions have had nearly all of their draft picks over the past 6 years and what has it done for them. By contrast, the Pats have had years with around 10 picks and also years with less than 6 picks. Having draft picks alone is like owning a fluctuating stock-if you don't make a perfect decision you end up with worthless crap.

Let's not act like draft picks, especially with this decision making team, are gold that we are about to trade for straw.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by jdlea

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?

How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO) and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season.

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver. I mean, really, he wasn't playing against nearly the pass rushers or the defensive backfields in the AFC West as he will in the NFC East. (Okay, he played against Merriman and the Bolts year before last, but I don't buy into the Oakland D being as good as advertised and KC's isn't nearly on par with Philly/Dal/NYG)

[irish]

Originally Posted by jdlea

How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season. (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO)

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver.

I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.

I see what you're saying, but Favre couldn't really get comfortable with the Jets last year. McNair had issues (while he was very effective) with the Ravens playbook after not being around for the offseason programs. Two veterans had issues with picking up a new O, it can't be that easy.

I think that it is less "JC developing at a snail's pace" and more the West Coast Offense throwing off the way a QB plays; it takes away playmaking instincts which, I believe, Jay relies on.

Steve Young says that it takes 3 years to get a QB used to the WCO and we want to give up on Campbell after 1 and change QB's, I guess that's okay if you think you're getting significantly better (I don't believe you are) or you're committed to your HC (I don't believe you are) and he's committed to the new QB.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.

I think this is exactly the reason why the team needs to give Campbell another year. Gibbs should've thrown Campbell to the fire right away, instead he went with old a$$ Brunell up until the time Brunell was non-functional. Had Gibbs gone with Campbell right away, we would be pass his development time and either would have sent JC packing if things had not worked out or if things would have worked out, he'd be a establish QB.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think this is exactly the reason why the team needs to give Campbell another year. Gibbs should've thrown Campbell to the fire right away, instead he went with old a$$ Brunell up until the time Brunell was non-functional. Had Gibbs gone with Campbell right away, we would be pass his development time and either would have sent JC packing if things had not worked out or if things would have worked out, he'd be a establish QB.

agreed.. we let a 1st round qb sit for far too long and we would've known his value by now

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jdlea

How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO) and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season.

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver. I mean, really, he wasn't playing against nearly the pass rushers or the defensive backfields in the AFC West as he will in the NFC East. (Okay, he played against Merriman and the Bolts year before last, but I don't buy into the Oakland D being as good as advertised and KC's isn't nearly on par with Philly/Dal/NYG)

I'm not down with this potential trade but Denver is just as intense about their team as we are. Denver might even be tougher for a Qb to play cause he's always going to have Elway's shadow lurking over him.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'm not down with this potential trade but Denver is just as intense about their team as we are. Denver might even be tougher for a Qb to play cause he's always going to have Elway's shadow lurking over him.

I guess, but he came out and said he has a stronger arm than Elway. That, coupled with this BS makes me think he can't handle being a starter unless everyone in the local media coddles him.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I guess, but he came out and said he has a stronger arm than Elway. That, coupled with this BS makes me think he can't handle being a starter unless everyone in the local media coddles him.

Ah nice, we're pursuing the Manny Ramirez of football. Geesh...

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I'm not down with this potential trade but Denver is just as intense about their team as we are. Denver might even be tougher for a Qb to play cause he's always going to have Elway's shadow lurking over him.

I think it is tough to be in Elway's shadow, but being the QB of the Washington Redskins is a far tougher gig. Given the fact that we're an east coast city and the Redskins are popular enough to trump any other professional and college sports team when it comes to the attention they get.

[SFREDSKIN]

If the Redskins are stupid enough to make this trade, then I would offer Campbell and Betts for Cutler straight up or no deal. Danny gets enamored with a player and just throws draft picks around to get him. I just don't see what Cutler has that deserves 2 1st round picks. What the **** has he done that Campbell hasn't?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think it is tough to be in Elway's shadow, but being the QB of the Washington Redskins is a far tougher gig. Given the fact that we're an east coast city and the Redskins are popular enough to trump any other professional and college sports team when it comes to the attention they get.

Well I'll put it this way. Both are hard core NFL cities and are tough places to play QB. If Cutler can play there then he can play here.