Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I think your correct.
Snyder is a sawed-off little shit, self-made billionaire with some ego. I think that rubs many the wrong way. I happen to think damn near everything he does is FOR the Skins in one way or another. Some things have blown up....many have not. Hate him, love him.........he BLEEDS Burgundy FAR more than any of us............

For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.

I'm not saying the man can never do right in my eyes, it's just a story that always sticks with me.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by GMScud

For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.

And the funny things is (from what I've heard) that he was the high school geek/dork at Charles Woodward HS in Bethesda. Maybe it's Danny's revenge?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.

I'm not saying the man can never do right in my eyes, it's just a story that always sticks with me.

Snyder's not lacking for confidence, that's for sure. He's an intense guy, but he's a nicer guy (the very limited encounters I've had with him) than he seems to want to admit.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Snyder's not lacking for confidence, that's for sure. He's an intense guy, but he's a nicer guy (the very limited encounters I've had with him) than he seems to want to admit.

Another thing I consider is that my dad's experiences with him were around 8 years ago. Danny is still a relatively young guy and I'm sure he's grown since then.

PS- My pops did mention that he has some kick-ass cigars.

[Daseal]

Snyder isn’t a poor owner, and Cerrato isn’t nearly as bad as many make him out to be. Snyder started off his tenure in DC very shaky. He made a lot of mistakes, and in my opinion – learned from said mistakes. Besides the initial couple years, tell me what spending sprees Snyder has gone on? In fact, a majority of the free agents we’ve gone after have made significant contributions to the team. These players include: Griffin, Springs, Portis, Washington, Fletcher, Moss, ARE, Kendall, Thomas, Carter, Daniels, etc. Sure, there have been some busts too, such as Lloyd, Taylor, etc. But far and away most of the big name players we’ve gone after in free agency recently have been very important to the success of our team.

Everyone around here cries and asks for an owner like Dan Rooney. Let’s take a look at the Rooney’s. They’re cheap. Very cheap. Expect a lot of very good talent to walk out of your door once their contract is up, lately this hasn’t bitten them too hard. But with as easy as it is to massage the cap, they could have kept many of the high profile players that walked out the door. Secondly, Pittsburgh has gone through many losing streaks, including with Cowher (who by the way, I hope we avoid like the plague. Over rated. Clap clap clap clap) where they stood pat. It’s quite obvious, when looking at the evaluation of Vinny on this site, that Redskins fans don’t understand what patience means.

Now lets move on to Vinny. I believe he regained the position, after Marty, in 2002 (if this is wrong, blame Cpayne!). Lets look at the drafts since then:
• 2002: Not a bad year. Ramsey, Betts, Bauman, Russell, Lott, Royal, Coleman, Grau, Scott, Cartwright. Of this group Betts and Cartwright are both on the team and doing well. Royal is a starter, and Ramsey is a backup. Having four players still in the NFL from that long ago isn’t a terrible draft. Definitely some misses, but could be worse.
• 2003: Only 3 picks. Jacobs, Dockery, Hamdan. Dockery is back with the team as a starting Guard and Hamden is still bouncing around the league.
• 2004: Taylor, Cooley, Wilson, Mollnaro. The late round picks didn’t stand out, but two all pros in rounds 1 and 3. Another good draft.
• 2005: Rogers, Campbell, White, McCune, Newberry, Nemo. Top two picks are good starters in the league, late round picks didn’t make it.
• 2006: McIntosh, Montogomery, Doughty, Golston, Lefotu, Simon. No first round picks and 4 players still on the team and playing well. Another very good draft.
• 2007: Landry, Sartz, Blades, Palmer, Ecker. Not a very good draft. Landry has been great, Blades is a solid backup, but the rest fizzled out. Two solid players, not the worst draft either.
• 2008: Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Rinehart, Hayes, Tryon, Brooks, Moore, Brennan, Jackson, Horton. People want to complain about this draft, and I simply don’t see it. Even if many players don’t make it – where did Vinny go wrong. Thomas was the #1WR on most NFL boards, Kelly was a great pick that I think may be the best WR out of that draft class, and Fred Davis was the best TE in that class. All three play a pass catching position, one that TYPICALLY takes a few seasons to adapt to and become effective. Especially Thomas, he hasn’t played a lot of college games so he needs to keep learning. Chris Horton was borderline DROY and Rob Jackson played. Cold Brennan definitely put some sparks of hope into skins fans after his preseason, and Kareem Moore has contributed at Safety and especially special teams. This draft class was great with how Vinny traded around to get more picks and got a lot of value for his picks. Even the late rounders.

Its hard to tell during the Gibbs years who was actually in charge. It was a muddled mess, just the way Gibbs wanted it. Nothing inside Redskins park would be transparent. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that – but it’s hard to place blame accurately from the outside that way. I feel like we’re still two years away from being able to accurately describe this draft class. Also, where did all the people commending Vinny directly after the draft and early in the season go? There were tons of us then, now because the top three didn’t play much – he’s terrible. Come on.

The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.

This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.

Ok, but again we just don't know the specifics. Cleveland backed out why? We weren't willing to offer what they wanted. They changed their mind. For me the most logical reason is we weren't willing to part with some piece of the puzzle. But again we just can't know.

[53Fan]

I think Snyder wants the Redskins to be the best and has no problem spending whatever it takes to be just that. The ONLY problem I have with him, is when he doesn't leave personell decisions to the football people he has employed.

[Defensewins]

I like Snyder to continue being the redskins owner...he wants nothing more than the best for the Skins. He is a brilliant bussiniess man. My compliments stop there.
Snyder is not a football man. He will never be a great evaluater of talent. He should not be involved in the personnel moves. Either you are born with it or you are not. A guy like Parcells has proven to have it...Snyder has proven he does not have it.
We have gone nine years with Dan Snyder involved in personnel moves and our team has not done well on the field. Lets try with out him and see what happens. It can't hurt.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Here we go AGAIN. Just as I said I would.....Bears & Cutler!

We didn't pull the trigger, for whatever reason. No one here knows the inside of what went on or what we were going to put on the table (yet). The Bears stepped up and made a bad deal. The situation is over, I wish many of the people posting in this thread would have the same level of understanding of the situation and maturity as Jason Campbell and move the F on.

Can we focus on the draft and leave the DS & VC bashing to Peter King, et al.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I like Snyder to continue being the redskins owner...he wants nothing more than the best for the Skins. He is a brilliant bussiniess man. My compliments stop there.
Snyder is not a football man. He will never be a great evaluater of talent. He should not be involved in the personnel moves. Either you are born with it or you are not. A guy like Parcells has proven to have it...Snyder has proven he does not have it.
We have gone nine years with Dan Snyder involved in personnel moves and our team has not done well on the field. Lets try with out him and see what happens. It can't hurt.

Snyder's problem isn't really evaluating talent because he actually rarely evaluates talent. His problem is he listens to too many people, as in he could be at a Six Flags board meeting and someone could say "I was watching Ohio State this weekend, and holy cow! did you all see Beanie Wells" and Snyder will think "I should ask Vinny and the rest of the guys back in Ashburn what are we doing about Beanie Wells." His other problem is being able to properly measure the value/worth of the talent. But, as I understand it, when he does his own evaluating (rare) he's not so bad.

[Daniel Snyder]

Voted 5 stars.

Would read again.