Your thoughts "IF" Shanahan were to replace Zorn in 2010

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My first thought would be here we go again, in start over mode yet again.

If it happened, and I'm not advocating it, I wouldn't look at it as here we go again. If Snyder hires a Shanahan or Cowher, he's looking at a 10 year hire, and the first $100 million coach. With that kind of investment he's got to give full and complete control.

Zorn really had 'stopgap' written on him from jump. There wasn't a plan to replace Gibbs so Snyder had to go with what he could in a 'weak' coaching market that year. To hook a big fish he's going to have to shed his albatross in Vinny which was reportedly the barrier to getting Spags from NYG and take a large step back from football operations.

Shanny is experienced in dealing with a high profile, big money owner with Bowlen so he'd be up for the challenge, the main question would be if Danny would fire his 'boy' in order to make it happen.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it happened, and I'm not advocating it, I wouldn't look at it as here we go again. If Snyder hires a Shanahan or Cowher, he's looking at a 10 year hire, and the first $100 million coach. With that kind of investment he's got to give full and complete control.

Zorn really had 'stopgap' written on him from jump. There wasn't a plan to replace Gibbs so Snyder had to go with what he could in a 'weak' coaching market that year. To hook a big fish he's going to have to shed his albatross in Vinny which was reportedly the barrier to getting Spags from NYG and take a large step back from football operations.

Shanny is experienced in dealing with a high profile, big money owner with Bowlen so he'd be up for the challenge, the main question would be if Danny would fire his 'boy' in order to make it happen.

Cowher isnt coming here ever. He wont put up with DS's way of running a team. Also, there is no way either Cowher of Shanahan would stay for 10 years. Besides DS not having that kind of patience, those are older men and they understand the meatgrinder that is NFL coaching and 10 years is a long time under that stress. If you ask me, Zorn should be the 10 year hire. He younger and full of energy having never been thru the meat grinder. IMO, Zorn should stay for a minimum of 5 years no matter what happens but with an owner like DS that will never happen.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher isnt coming here ever. He wont put up with DS's way of running a team. Also, there is no way either Cowher of Shanahan would stay for 10 years. Besides DS not having that kind of patience, those are older men and they understand the meatgrinder that is NFL coaching and 10 years is a long time under that stress. If you ask me, Zorn should be the 10 year hire. He younger and full of energy having never been thru the meat grinder. IMO, Zorn should stay for a minimum of 5 years no matter what happens but with an owner like DS that will never happen.

Totally agree. Zorn should be given enough time to determine if his system and his players can make it to perennial Super Bowl contender. 1 and 2 year tryouts isn't adequate enough. Plenty of the all-time great coaches struggled, especially in their first year.

Oh, Zorn is actually older than Cowher.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher isnt coming here ever. He wont put up with DS's way of running a team. Also, there is no way either Cowher of Shanahan would stay for 10 years. Besides DS not having that kind of patience, those are older men and they understand the meatgrinder that is NFL coaching and 10 years is a long time under that stress. If you ask me, Zorn should be the 10 year hire. He younger and full of energy having never been thru the meat grinder. IMO, Zorn should stay for a minimum of 5 years no matter what happens but with an owner like DS that will never happen.

Well I stated earlier this week we don't really have a good chance at Cowher-too close to Marty, Shanahan-too close to Jerry Jones or Holmgren-too close to Zorn who would have just been fired. I was just hypothesizing based on the question. Maybe a 10 year $100 million contract is high, but you can certainly count on 5 years for $50 million without even blinking.

It would be huge for Zorn to have the level of success to gain a 10 year run as head coach but when he was hired it never seemed like that was the plan. Didn't he get a 5 year contract but only 3 were guaranteed?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher isnt coming here ever. He wont put up with DS's way of running a team. Also, there is no way either Cowher of Shanahan would stay for 10 years. Besides DS not having that kind of patience, those are older men and they understand the meatgrinder that is NFL coaching and 10 years is a long time under that stress. If you ask me, Zorn should be the 10 year hire. He younger and full of energy having never been thru the meat grinder. IMO, Zorn should stay for a minimum of 5 years no matter what happens but with an owner like DS that will never happen.

As a side note:

Bill Cowher
Born: May 8, 1957 (1957-05-08) (age 51)
Crafton, Pennsylvania

Jim Zorn
Born: May 10, 1953 (1953-05-10) (age 55)
Whittier, California

Mike Shanahan
Date of birthAugust 24, 1952 (1952-08-24) (age 56)

Jon Gruden
Date of birthAugust 17, 1963 (1963-08-17) (age 45)

To be honest with you they all are about the same age other then Gruden but he's only 5 or 6 yrs off Cowher.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

As a side note:

Bill Cowher
Born: May 8, 1957 (1957-05-08) (age 51)
Crafton, Pennsylvania

Jim Zorn
Born: May 10, 1953 (1953-05-10) (age 55)
Whittier, California

Mike Shanahan
Date of birthAugust 24, 1952 (1952-08-24) (age 56)

Jon Gruden
Date of birthAugust 17, 1963 (1963-08-17) (age 45)

To be honest with you they all are about the same age other then Gruden but he's only 5 or 6 yrs off Cowher.

They are all the same age but Zorn hasnt been through the meat grinder like the others have.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by irish

They are all the same age but Zorn hasnt been through the meat grinder like the others have.

That was my feeling as well. I would much rather give Zorn a fairly comfortable 5 yr window, but of course, I also would keep JC as qb, so I don't know that my thoughts are in line with the FO right now.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Smoot, great memory! I had completely forgotten about that rant. If memory serves me, someone here (or on ES) who had some sort of connection to Portis crew (friend of a friend) indicated that Portis was mouthing off and that Zorn did not change the running game in the 2nd half of the season - that our problems really were almost soley due to the o-line breaking down and that, contrary to other reports that I had read, Zorn really was well-liked by the team. Seeing that i had inaccurate information, my whole basis for making Zorn the lone scapegoat for our teams problems were fundamentally flawed. That said, I still think it was foolish to hire Zorn as HC and force the WCO on Campbell.

However, now that we've made the switch, we need to stick with it. If, as some have stated, Zorn really was hired as nothing more than a stop-gap, then we shouldnt have given him a 2nd year. Shanahan and Gruden are available now - why the delay? Which means Snyder must really be coveting Cowher or Holmgren (if the stop-gap theory is true). Which brings me to...

Originally Posted by PainTrain

If it happened, and I'm not advocating it, I wouldn't look at it as here we go again. If Snyder hires a Shanahan or Cowher, he's looking at a 10 year hire, and the first $100 million coach. With that kind of investment he's got to give full and complete control.

Zorn really had 'stopgap' written on him from jump. There wasn't a plan to replace Gibbs so Snyder had to go with what he could in a 'weak' coaching market that year. To hook a big fish he's going to have to shed his albatross in Vinny which was reportedly the barrier to getting Spags from NYG and take a large step back from football operations.

Very interesting take on the situation, Pain. I think 10 years is a bit long for a contract, but 10M/year over 5+ years would be enough garaunteed cash that Snyder would be "forced" to stick with his decision. I wouldnt like starting over from scratch, but i could live with it if it garaunteed 5+ years with a superbowl HC.

I know numerous people have commented that Cowher wouldnt come here because he's close to Marty, but Marty has gone on record saying he and Snyder are friends and he'd work for Snyder again... so what if Snyder hired Cowher as coach and Shotty as GM and committed to them for 5+ years? Something like THAT I could live with.

What I absolutely couldnt live with is Shanahan or Holmgren serving as coach AND GM... neither has done well with both responsibilities in the past. And Gruden shouldnt even be in the conversation. Maybe as a QB coach/OC but thats it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Smoot, great memory! I had completely forgotten about that rant. If memory serves me, someone here (or on ES) who had some sort of connection to Portis crew (friend of a friend) indicated that Portis was mouthing off and that Zorn did not change the running game in the 2nd half of the season - that our problems really were almost soley due to the o-line breaking down and that, contrary to other reports that I had read, Zorn really was well-liked by the team. Seeing that i had inaccurate information, my whole basis for making Zorn the lone scapegoat for our teams problems were fundamentally flawed. That said, I still think it was foolish to hire Zorn as HC and force the WCO on Campbell.

I have a bit of a photogenic memory, it's a blessing and a curse. I could visualize that post in my head. Was just a matter of finding it online. Yeah, there's that dude on ES who claims (I'm sure he is) to be tight with Porti or someone close to Portis. Zorn is going through growing pains with the players, earning their respect and vice-versa

However, now that we've made the switch, we need to stick with it. If, as some have stated, Zorn really was hired as nothing more than a stop-gap, then we shouldnt have given him a 2nd year. Shanahan and Gruden are available now - why the delay? Which means Snyder must really be coveting Cowher or Holmgren (if the stop-gap theory is true). Which brings me to...

I agree that we should stick with him. I would have preferred Fassel myself but we chose Zorn. Why not see what he can do with a few years under his belt?

Very interesting take on the situation, Pain. I think 10 years is a bit long for a contract, but 10M/year over 5+ years would be enough garaunteed cash that Snyder would be "forced" to stick with his decision. I wouldnt like starting over from scratch, but i could live with it if it garaunteed 5+ years with a superbowl HC.

I know numerous people have commented that Cowher wouldnt come here because he's close to Marty, but Marty has gone on record saying he and Snyder are friends and he'd work for Snyder again... so what if Snyder hired Cowher as coach and Shotty as GM and committed to them for 5+ years? Something like THAT I could live with.

Yeah, I know I've mentioned in the past that Marty and Snyder get along well now and I know (at least I've heard) that Cowher and Marty have talked to an extent about working together again. Schottenheimer has said he only wants a front office position now, and Cowher has said Schotteheimer is one guy he'd work for.

What I absolutely couldnt live with is Shanahan or Holmgren serving as coach AND GM... neither has done well with both responsibilities in the past. And Gruden shouldnt even be in the conversation. Maybe as a QB coach/OC but thats it.

Word