Grade the Redskins Draft!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I can understand the frustration about not drafting offensive linemen, but it's hard to take an argument that says Snyder is setting Zorn up to fail with the selections we made too seriously.

Perhaps "setting up to fail" is not the right term. Maybe "not doing a D--- thing to help him succeed" would be more appropriate.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Perhaps "setting up to fail" is not the right term. Maybe "not doing a D--- thing to help him succeed" would be more appropriate.

They did several things to help the O in last year's draft. You know, guys that are still on the team and need to step up this year.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

They did several things to help the O in last year's draft. You know, guys that are still on the team and need to step up this year.

but there are no garantees they WILL step up. I'm hopeful about Thomas and Davis, but if the decline of Moss and ARE continues, it may be a wash.

Whats up with all this optimism going on here? The next thing I know, someones going to be telling me that at the end of last season, our lines were the teams primary concern, and now we've infused 33% of those lines with excellent young players and I should be focusing on what we have done instead of what we have not.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

but there are no garantees they WILL step up. I'm hopeful about Thomas and Davis, but if the decline of Moss and ARE continues, it may be a wash.

Whats up with all this optimism going on here? The next thing I know, someones going to be telling me that at the end of last season, our lines were the teams primary concern, and now we've infused 33% of those lines with excellent young players and I should be focusing on what we have done instead of what we have not.

Can I simply tell you, that we have made good moves at the opening bell of FA, good moves at the very least in the opening moments of the draft, and now we are in a different stage and have one basic need to hammer home, and several teams getting ready to cut serviceable if not high mark talent because of their drafts. It is the off-season, I will live with my Forever optimistic Skins Glasses proudly!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

but there are no garantees they WILL step up. I'm hopeful about Thomas and Davis, but if the decline of Moss and ARE continues, it may be a wash.

Whats up with all this optimism going on here? The next thing I know, someones going to be telling me that at the end of last season, our lines were the teams primary concern, and now we've infused 33% of those lines with excellent young players and I should be focusing on what we have done instead of what we have not.

And there would be no guarantees of a rookie taken this year for the O that he would be ready to step up.

Decline of Moss and ARE? I think that's overstating things a bit.

As for the optimism, if you can't be optimistic in April before any games have even been played, I guess you never will be.

[JoeRedskin]

If you were to break the draft into First Day Grade, Second Day Grade, and Overall Grade, I think you might find a lot more agreement on the first two picks. For me, our first day was a win - Orakpo was a solid pick, good value and filling a need. Barnes appears to be a bit of a steal and bumps the first day to a B+. For me, and for the reasons I've stated, I think the second day was a D-. Did we address needs? maybe. Did we get good value? from everything I've read, the 5th round selection would have been available in the 7th round or as an UFA. In fact, the only player I saw with a draft expectation was the receiver. So... we took a scattershot approach to a position of lesser need than the OL (IMO), we picked players who would have been available later or as UFDA's, we ignored a position of need and, in the position of need, passed over players rated higher than the ones we chose. Why not take a couple of flyers on Meredith in the 5th and Murtha in the 7th?

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see anyone who helps us in the 2nd day in the short or long term. If Nelson turns out to be a find, great. Otherwise, we would have been better off trying to find more developmental lineman.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If you were to break the draft into First Day Grade, Second Day Grade, and Overall Grade, I think you might find a lot more agreement on the first two picks. For me, our first day was a win - Orakpo was a solid pick, good value and filling a need. Barnes appears to be a bit of a steal and bumps the first day to a B+. For me, and for the reasons I've stated, I think the second day was a D-. Did we address needs? maybe. Did we get good value? from everything I've read, the 5th round selection would have been available in the 7th round or as an UFA. In fact, the only player I saw with a draft expectation was the receiver. So... we took a scattershot approach to a position of lesser need than the OL (IMO), we picked players who would have been available later or as UFDA's, we ignored a position of need and, in the position of need, passed over players rated higher than the ones we chose. Why not take a couple of flyers on Meredith in the 5th and Murtha in the 7th?

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see anyone who helps us in the 2nd day in the short or long term. If Nelson turns out to be a find, great. Otherwise, we would have been better off trying to find more developmental lineman.

What sort of calendar are you on? Barnes was a second day pick

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What sort of calendar are you on? Barnes was a second day pick

Last year's calendar (or was it the year before), when the third round was day one.

Okay, day one was an B+ and day 2 was a C- (Barnes raises it a grade). lol

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Why not take a couple of flyers on Meredith in the 5th and Murtha in the 7th?

I think because the need we needed to fill was "special teams." A flyer at offensive line is one less player that can cover kicks for you next year.

[Paintrain]

Without making this post a quote-fest a few points:
-Football is the ultimate team sport. Improving the defense will improve the offense. We've added 3 key pieces to the "4th ranked defense" (which is meaningless really) which should make a significant difference. Haynesworth pushes the middle of the pocket, which has been needed for years. Hall is a playmaking CB with great ball skills. He will get beat occasionally but will make plays as well. Orapko provides pass rush which should increase turnovers and improve field position. By default, over the span of the season, will improve the offensive production. We were top 5 in the league in overall offense but bottom third in turnovers and sacks. I'd rather be the 12th ranked defense and be top 8 in sacks turnovers than top 5 with fewer changes of the ball.

-I know I am nearly alone in this but once we past our pick at #13 and we got Oprapko, which everyone is universally happy with, so what we didn't draft an o-lineman? Would you want us to 'mortgage our future' to trade back into the end of round one or round two for Oher, Britton or Loadholt? That would cost us our '10 1st round pick. Do you want us to reach for a player graded as a 5th or 6th rounder in the 3rd just for the sake of picking an OL? The fact that very few OL (and no tackles) were taken immediately or nearly after our 3rd round pick would have meant that we immensely reached. The other point is if most of you aren't patient enough to let Rinehart develop and are calling him a bust, what are your expectations for a 5th round G or T?

I don't know, maybe I am naive but I don't get the gloom and doom going around. Damn, cheer up, it's spring time and we're 0-0. Let the preseason (at least) play out before we start firing coaches and starting over in 2010. Would the '09 outlook be that dramatically different if we had gone with Oher (who lasted another 10 picks) or traded down to pick up an additional 4, 5 or 6 (what teams were paying to move up) later in the draft?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Without making this post a quote-fest a few points:
-Football is the ultimate team sport. Improving the defense will improve the offense. We've added 3 key pieces to the "4th ranked defense" (which is meaningless really) which should make a significant difference. Haynesworth pushes the middle of the pocket, which has been needed for years. Hall is a playmaking CB with great ball skills. He will get beat occasionally but will make plays as well. Orapko provides pass rush which should increase turnovers and improve field position. By default, over the span of the season, will improve the offensive production. We were top 5 in the league in overall offense but bottom third in turnovers and sacks. I'd rather be the 12th ranked defense and be top 8 in sacks turnovers than top 5 with fewer changes of the ball.

-I know I am nearly alone in this but once we past our pick at #13 and we got Oprapko, which everyone is universally happy with, so what we didn't draft an o-lineman? Would you want us to 'mortgage our future' to trade back into the end of round one or round two for Oher, Britton or Loadholt? That would cost us our '10 1st round pick. Do you want us to reach for a player graded as a 5th or 6th rounder in the 3rd just for the sake of picking an OL? The fact that very few OL (and no tackles) were taken immediately or nearly after our 3rd round pick would have meant that we immensely reached. The other point is if most of you aren't patient enough to let Rinehart develop and are calling him a bust, what are your expectations for a 5th round G or T?

I don't know, maybe I am naive but I don't get the gloom and doom going around. Damn, cheer up, it's spring time and we're 0-0. Let the preseason (at least) play out before we start firing coaches and starting over in 2010. Would the '09 outlook be that dramatically different if we had gone with Oher (who lasted another 10 picks) or traded down to pick up an additional 4, 5 or 6 (what teams were paying to move up) later in the draft?

You are not alone. I am in considerable agreement with you.

If just a couple of things had gone differently last year we might have finished 10-6. And now I think we are better. One step at a time.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Without making this post a quote-fest a few points:
-Football is the ultimate team sport. Improving the defense will improve the offense. We've added 3 key pieces to the "4th ranked defense" (which is meaningless really) which should make a significant difference. Haynesworth pushes the middle of the pocket, which has been needed for years. Hall is a playmaking CB with great ball skills. He will get beat occasionally but will make plays as well. Orapko provides pass rush which should increase turnovers and improve field position. By default, over the span of the season, will improve the offensive production. We were top 5 in the league in overall offense but bottom third in turnovers and sacks. I'd rather be the 12th ranked defense and be top 8 in sacks turnovers than top 5 with fewer changes of the ball.

-I know I am nearly alone in this but once we past our pick at #13 and we got Oprapko, which everyone is universally happy with, so what we didn't draft an o-lineman? Would you want us to 'mortgage our future' to trade back into the end of round one or round two for Oher, Britton or Loadholt? That would cost us our '10 1st round pick. Do you want us to reach for a player graded as a 5th or 6th rounder in the 3rd just for the sake of picking an OL? The fact that very few OL (and no tackles) were taken immediately or nearly after our 3rd round pick would have meant that we immensely reached. The other point is if most of you aren't patient enough to let Rinehart develop and are calling him a bust, what are your expectations for a 5th round G or T?

I don't know, maybe I am naive but I don't get the gloom and doom going around. Damn, cheer up, it's spring time and we're 0-0. Let the preseason (at least) play out before we start firing coaches and starting over in 2010. Would the '09 outlook be that dramatically different if we had gone with Oher (who lasted another 10 picks) or traded down to pick up an additional 4, 5 or 6 (what teams were paying to move up) later in the draft?

I don't think it's quite gloom and doom, Pain, just a questionmark??

After the 1st and 3rd round, it all seemed ????????Questionable????????? to me, although I liked the video of the WR Marko Polo.

I agree with what you and others have said about the Defensive improvements, but we also have three young OLs Rinehart, Clark, and Batiste, who have been working on their game. Dock returned and the FA Williams (4 Bill$$$$) signed Friday! Throw in the UDRFAs and we have some depth!

The Draft, overall, I give it a C Passing.
The RDFAs - A

[SmootSmack]

By the way...the Jets have cut Marcus Mason. We're going to need a dozen new threads on him now

[CRedskinsRule]

I still think alot of this comes to trusting your scouts. I don't know if we should or not, but listening to Vinny it sounds like a scout made a compelling case for a player he watched throughout the year, and that took priority over national rankings. Also, it seemed like Vinny or Zorn were able to give a personal story behind several of the picks. e.g. on Barnes, Zorn spoke of a Seattle player with a similar injury and how he came back without distraction. What this tells me is that VC and JZ did have alot of input, and by extension - our "football guys" did. So now, after screaming "Listen to football guys" and "Don't mortgage the future", our FO does just that, but doesn't do what exactly we fans want. So do we really mean it when we say "build through the draft" and are we willing to wait and see if our OL from the last two years can step up.

[DIRTEE]

I'm pleased with the overall draft and signing of undrafted free agents. I think the defense will be just as competitive this year. The only real issue with the offense was scoring in the red zone. We have a 3,000 yard passer, 1,450+ rusher and 1,000 receiver, hopefully with the new additions and improved play from last year's personnel we can score more often. I'm really feeling the signing of the UDFA's more than the day 2 signings. Overall, a B+.