Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Only the losers of the NFL preach patience.

Ask Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, or Mike Tomlin how patient they expect their fans to be. How about Bill Polian? Does anyone think his success in Buffalo, Carolina, or Indianapolis was based on sitting through years and years of 8-8 seasons asking everyone to be "patient" ??

No. This league is about winning, and winning right F'ing now. We've had 10 years under this regime. They're good at building mediocrity. They're good at developing teams to win 6 to 9 games a year -- maybe 10 games if everything falls right into place.

The league is designed to make winners out of anybody, and for anybody to do it in relatively short fashion.

If you can't get it done in ten years with the same people running the show, it's not going to get done.

But we haven't necessarily had the same people running the show

2000-Snyder
2001-Marty
2002-2003-Spurrier
2004-2007-Gibbs
2008-Present-Cerrato

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But we haven't necessarily had the same people running the show

2000-Snyder
2001-Marty
2002-2003-Spurrier
2004-2007-Gibbs
2008-Present-Cerrato

No, its been Dan and Vinny the whole time. Let's not kid ourselves. Marty wanted to do his own thing, but they got tired of that after... one year, then was Spurrier, who was Dan's lap dog, just like Vinny. Gibbs... eh, thats arguable, he ran the show some of the time, but pick ups like Lloyd, Archuletta, and Duckett, they smelled like Dan ad Vinny had thier fingers in it.

[cobracai1]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

No, its been Dan and Vinny the whole time. Let's not kid ourselves. Marty wanted to do his own thing, but they got tired of that after... one year, then was Spurrier, who was Dan's lap dog, just like Vinny. Gibbs... eh, thats arguable, he ran the show some of the time, but pick ups like Lloyd, Archuletta, and Duckett, they smelled like Dan ad Vinny had thier fingers in it.

I love how we only talk about the mess ups of the FO. How about the Santana Moss trade? How about Griffen, Springs, and Daniels signings. I will not bore everone on the board with this discussion any longer but I think that to say things like our FO is stupid or retarded just doesn't really hold water with me. They have areas where they can improve. You cant just compare us to Indy, Pitt, and New England every time. These are elite franchises with years of stability in coaching and systems. If we stay the course we could eventually get there. I actually am happy with our offseason. We have gotten younger at a lot of positions and have upgraded both our offensive and defensive lines (and we aren't done yet). And our O-line shoudl be better just with the improvement of the guys already there. Lets have some faith.

HTTR

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by cobracai1

I love how we only talk about the mess ups of the FO. How about the Santana Moss trade? How about Griffen, Springs, and Daniels signings. I will not bore everone on the board with this discussion any longer but I think that to say things like our FO is stupid or retarded just doesn't really hold water with me. They have areas where they can improve. You cant just compare us to Indy, Pitt, and New England every time. These are elite franchises with years of stability in coaching and systems. If we stay the course we could eventually get there. I actually am happy with our offseason. We have gotten younger at a lot of positions and have upgraded both our offensive and defensive lines (and we aren't done yet). And our O-line shoudl be better just with the improvement of the guys already there. Lets have some faith.

HTTR

Dude, how about 68-76 over ten years? How about 22-26 over the last three seasons?

Faith is believing in something you know ain't true.

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by cobracai1

I love how we only talk about the mess ups of the FO. How about the Santana Moss trade? How about Griffen, Springs, and Daniels signings. I will not bore everone on the board with this discussion any longer but I think that to say things like our FO is stupid or retarded just doesn't really hold water with me. They have areas where they can improve. You cant just compare us to Indy, Pitt, and New England every time. These are elite franchises with years of stability in coaching and systems. If we stay the course we could eventually get there. I actually am happy with our offseason. We have gotten younger at a lot of positions and have upgraded both our offensive and defensive lines (and we aren't done yet). And our O-line shoudl be better just with the improvement of the guys already there. Lets have some faith.

HTTR

OK, first off, we traded Laverneous Coles for Moss, who (talking about Coles) at that time was a more productive receiver. so, it can be argued, that the Jets actually came out on the better side of that deal. That's number one.

And as for the other names you mentioned... Even a blindfolded person, given enough darts will hit the bulls-eye at some point. Those were more of on the dart board hits though, Springs was a beast WHEN he wasn't injured, same goes for Daniels, but Griffen is solid. And the only improvement we made so far is the Dockery signing. WHICH IS GOOD, don't get me wrong, but that line needs a makeover.

And just read what the experts (yes, the experts, who, like it or not know more about football than any of us do) have to say about our draft compared to Indy's and New England's, we don't have the FO talent to draft like they do.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But we haven't necessarily had the same people running the show

2000-Snyder
2001-Marty
2002-2003-Spurrier
2004-2007-Gibbs
2008-Present-Cerrato

Fine. I'll subtract the 8-8 season under Marty.

Steve Spurrier was hardly running the show during 2002-03. Under Gibbs, Cerrato was still player personnel director, and Lil' Danny held the purse strings.

Either way you slice it, Lil' Danny has been here for the last ten years doing the hiring. In any business, the one who's doing the hiring is the one who gets the blame. And he's got a 68-76 record to show for it.

You know and I know those numbers show he's not getting it done.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Fine. I'll subtract the 8-8 season under Marty.

Steve Spurrier was hardly running the show during 2002-03. Under Gibbs, Cerrato was still player personnel director, and Lil' Danny held the purse strings.

Either way you slice it, Lil' Danny has been here for the last ten years doing the hiring. In any business, the one who's doing the hiring is the one who gets the blame. And he's got a 68-76 record to show for it.

You know and I know those numbers show he's not getting it done.

Fine. Danny has been in charge for 10 years, that is true. So, if you don't want to be patient, what are you going to change? Trade Danny? As much as I'd like to, that's not realistic.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Fine. Danny has been in charge for 10 years, that is true. So, if you don't want to be patient, what are you going to change? Trade Danny? As much as I'd like to, that's not realistic.

I actually have sympathy for this point of view: There's no point in bitching about ownership because it's not going to change. That's the one argument from the Front Office Defenders that I can respect. I get that.

It is beyond me though, that there is still a contingent of fans that act as loyal pawns of this regime. So quick to roll their eyes at anyone who makes a legitimate argument against the front office. "I guess it's more fun to bash the F.O." they'll say...

Win some games, and that will change.

Winners don't tolerate a 7-9 season average over ten years. Losers do.