RI: Orakpo Starts Out at Linebacker

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

On third downs, he's strictly a pass rusher. On rushing downs, I think he's going to be asked to split time with Carter at right end. I think it all depends on who we play. A pass heavy team, and one week, he could line up at end 100% of his snaps. Against a run heavy team, maybe 60-40%.

Inevitably, he's eventually going to be our RE. I just think the quickest way onto the field is SLB, and generally, that player doesn't often get man coverage responsibilities with Horton up near the line.

GT why are you dead set at seeing Rak RDE long term? Based on his skill set? Team needs? I just strikes me that w/ his strength and power (and given a little time to add mass the way Daniels did initially) Rak would be a beast @ LDE...able to stop the run and pressure/sack the QB w/ equal dominance.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

GT why are you dead set at seeing Rak RDE long term? Based on his skill set? Team needs? I just strikes me that w/ his strength and power (and given a little time to add mass the way Daniels did initially) Rak would be a beast @ LDE...able to stop the run and pressure/sack the QB w/ equal dominance.

I think you can get away at LDE with a marginal pass rusher, because it's very, very easy for the offense to neutralize the rush on the strong side. If we put Orakpo there, we would need someone that offenses fear on the other side.

Two pass rushing ends works for some teams, but not for others. Freeney and Mathis can put QBs on their backs very quickly, but Denver went with two really small rushers last year...and well, let's just say their first pick this year was a pass rusher.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you can get away at LDE with a marginal pass rusher, because it's very, very easy for the offense to neutralize the rush on the strong side. If we put Orakpo there, we would need someone that offenses fear on the other side.

Two pass rushing ends works for some teams, but not for others. Freeney and Mathis can put QBs on their backs very quickly, but Denver went with two really small rushers last year...and well, let's just say their first pick this year was a pass rusher.

This begs the question...why? Why does it work in some cases and why not in others? Why can't it work for us?

In Denver's case, I would argue that the answer to "Why?" is: lack of performance by the DE's, not the setup itself. Jarvis Moss is a bust. It doesn't matter what defensive strategy you pursue when you have a bust executing it.

Personally I see no reason, once Rak bulks up a bit, why we can't make Rak at LDE and Carter at RDE work. In fact, I look forward to this!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

This begs the question...why? Why does it work in some cases and why not in others? Why can't it work for us?

In Denver's case, I would argue that the answer to "Why?" is: lack of performance by the DE's, not the setup itself. Jarvis Moss is a bust. It doesn't matter what defensive strategy you pursue when you have a bust executing it.

Personally I see no reason, once Rak bulks up a bit, why we can't make Rak at LDE and Carter at RDE work. In fact, I look forward to this!

My answer to this at least, is that "it works, so long as both ends are better than the guys they are going up against." Jarvis Moss. Not better than most RTs in this league. Elvis Dumerville is only better than a handful of LTs.

The way I see it, by the time Orakpo has enough of a move arsenal to be a factor from the left side (remember that everything he did in college came from the right), Carter's best years (arguably 2007 and 2008), will be so far in the rear view mirror, that we will be searching for his replacement. By 2011, I see Orakpo as our full-time right end.

In the mean time, I caution against taking Orakpo out of his comfort zone. I like moving him around to get him mismatches as a rookie. But moving him around to exploit offensive weaknesses, and moving him around just for the sake of having him learn multiple moves from multiple positions are very different ideas.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

My answer to this at least, is that "it works, so long as both ends are better than the guys they are going up against." Jarvis Moss. Not better than most RTs in this league. Elvis Dumerville is only better than a handful of LTs.

The way I see it, by the time Orakpo has enough of a move arsenal to be a factor from the left side (remember that everything he did in college came from the right), Carter's best years (arguably 2007 and 2008), will be so far in the rear view mirror, that we will be searching for his replacement. By 2011, I see Orakpo as our full-time right end.

In the mean time, I caution against taking Orakpo out of his comfort zone. I like moving him around to get him mismatches as a rookie. But moving him around to exploit offensive weaknesses, and moving him around just for the sake of having him learn multiple moves from multiple positions are very different ideas.

The clarification is appreciated GT...i see your logic now. The one follow up discussion point i have is who's to say we won't draft/sign a more pure passrusher to replace Carter in the coming season or two? What's easier to come by: a passrushing specialist at RDE or a phenom who can shut down the rush and flip the switch to pressure/sack the QB? I tend to think pass-rush specialists are more common/available. If Rak can be the phenom to do both things on the left side wouldn't it make sense? I guess the bottom line question is where can he make the biggest impact and reach his highest potential?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The clarification is appreciated GT...i see your logic now. The one follow up discussion point i have is who's to say we won't draft/sign a more pure passrusher to replace Carter in the coming season or two? What's easier to come by: a passrushing specialist at RDE or a phenom who can shut down the rush and flip the switch to pressure/sack the QB? I tend to think pass-rush specialists are more common/available. If Rak can be the phenom to do both things on the left side wouldn't it make sense? I guess the bottom line question is where can he make the biggest impact and reach his highest potential?

Absolutely we could do something like that. Established pass rushers just tend to run expensive, unless you get lucky with a late round find.

But your logic does make sense: could we use Orakpo like a Mario Williams type, and have sort of a platoon between a more run focused player and a third down specialist with orakpo playing whereever he is needed? Yeah, that makes sense. I just think that may be jumping the gun on how good Orakpo can be for us. I'd like to see him for two years before I conclude on how versatile a player he can be.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Absolutely we could do something like that. Established pass rushers just tend to run expensive, unless you get lucky with a late round find.

But your logic does make sense: could we use Orakpo like a Mario Williams type, and have sort of a platoon between a more run focused player and a third down specialist with orakpo playing whereever he is needed? Yeah, that makes sense. I just think that may be jumping the gun on how good Orakpo can be for us. I'd like to see him for two years before I conclude on how versatile a player he can be.

Word...but it is a challenge to not get overly jacked about him, watching vids of him play for Texas and of course the weight room spectacle.

Part of me still wishes we'd traded down and got Rey or Oher and another pick (in fact i fear by mid-season there will be weeping and wailing that we passed on Oher) but now that Rak's a Skin, and especially after seeing his attitude/character in pressers, i'm full go Orakpo and just want to see the braintrust develop him into an elite player over the long term. I'm one who really won't bitch and moan if we don't see him play a ton of snaps this year.