Michael Vick in Talks to Become PETA Spokesman

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by tdSKINS1

And yes his last season he was coming into his own and becoming a better pocket passer.

Sorry, don't mean to single you out cause others have expressed this too, but this makes me laugh. Just cause some announcers said it, and Vick himself got on TV after 1 decent game and tried to silence doubters doesn't mean ANYONE should have listened.
His last season he had a 52.5 comp%. Which was the WORST of his full seasons and 1.2% LOWER than his career average. (for his full seasons, here is how he "progressed": 54.9%, 56.4%, 55.3%, 52.6%...this hardly suggests he was coming into his own)
His last season he threw for only 154.6 yards per game. Which is about 1 yard LOWER than his career average, and one of the worst in the NFL.
His last season he took 45 sacks losing 303 yards (which was a career worst in yards lost). That was 12 MORE than his previous season, and for a mobile QB, that's a lot.
People ONLY see his running stats, and they are eye popping! But they skew your view of him as a QB. He is one of the most overrated qb's in history. His throwing ability is horrible, and I would have to wager that he didn't get better in prison.

About Vick / Tavaris comparisons: (keep in mind that was not my analogy, it was someone elses, I do not think Jackson compares to Vick or vice versa, just playing devils advocate)
In Vicks last 2 seasons he was 15-16. Tavaris Jackson, for instance, was 10-7.
Vick has a passing TD once every 1.0597 games started. Tavaris has a passing TD once every 1.0526 games started. Remarkably similar.
Vick career comp% is a disgustingly low 53.8%. Tavaris career comp% is 58.4%.
That being said, I do not think Tavaris Jackson is a servicable QB in the NFL, and I would rather have Vick simply for the running factor, but nothing provided shows that Vick was on his way, or is someone that should be given a shot to be QB again. If he had a QB coach in prison, then more power to him, maybe he got better. But I highly doubt it.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Sorry, don't mean to single you out cause others have expressed this too, but this makes me laugh. Just cause some announcers said it, and Vick himself got on TV after 1 decent game and tried to silence doubters doesn't mean ANYONE should have listened.
His last season he had a 52.5 comp%. Which was the WORST of his full seasons and 1.2% LOWER than his career average. (for his full seasons, here is how he "progressed": 54.9%, 56.4%, 55.3%, 52.6%...this hardly suggests he was coming into his own)
His last season he threw for only 154.6 yards per game. Which is about 1 yard LOWER than his career average, and one of the worst in the NFL.
His last season he took 45 sacks losing 303 yards (which was a career worst in yards lost). That was 12 MORE than his previous season, and for a mobile QB, that's a lot.
People ONLY see his running stats, and they are eye popping! But they skew your view of him as a QB. He is one of the most overrated qb's in history. His throwing ability is horrible, and I would have to wager that he didn't get better in prison.

About Vick / Tavaris comparisons: (keep in mind that was not my analogy, it was someone elses, I do not think Jackson compares to Vick or vice versa, just playing devils advocate)
In Vicks last 2 seasons he was 15-16. Tavaris Jackson, for instance, was 10-7.
Vick has a passing TD once every 1.0597 games started. Tavaris has a passing TD once every 1.0526 games started. Remarkably similar.
Vick career comp% is a disgustingly low 53.8%. Tavaris career comp% is 58.4%.
That being said, I do not think Tavaris Jackson is a servicable QB in the NFL, and I would rather have Vick simply for the running factor, but nothing provided shows that Vick was on his way, or is someone that should be given a shot to be QB again. If he had a QB coach in prison, then more power to him, maybe he got better. But I highly doubt it.

Vick is the type of QB that you just can't judge him by passing stats. It's pointless. He's a pure 100% playmaker, as is Ben R. and McNabb. He'll never be Brady, Bress, Manning or Palmer. You bring up the W/L record but you fail to mention what happend to Atlanta when he wasn't on the playing field. The year he had a broken leg and missed time Atl. fell apart as they did the year before Matt Ryan came along. So that shows you his value. You also fail to mention that he got his team to the NFC Championship game and a divisional playoff game. To compare Jackson to Vick is pointless cause Vick is or was the better player. There was a reason Vick was the first pick in the draft and the highest paid player.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Vick is the type of QB that you just can't judge him by passing stats. It's pointless. He's a pure 100% playmaker, as is Ben R. and McNabb. He'll never be Brady, Bress, Manning or Palmer. You bring up the W/L record but you fail to mention what happend to Atlanta when he wasn't on the playing field. The year he had a broken leg and missed time Atl. fell apart as they did the year before Matt Ryan came along. So that shows you his value. You also fail to mention that he got his team to the NFC Championship game and a divisional playoff game. To compare Jackson to Vick is pointless cause Vick is or was the better player. There was a reason Vick was the first pick in the draft and the highest paid player.

You seem to use the word playmaker synonymously to the way I would use the word underachiever, but I'll grant that in Vick's younger days, he was athletic enough to take a 3 win team to a 7 win team by himself.

It didn't take very long for NFL defenses to figure out that if you keep him behind his big guys in the backfield, he's not very useful.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You seem to use the word playmaker synonymously to the way I would use the word underachiever, but I'll grant that in Vick's younger days, he was athletic enough to take a 3 win team to a 7 win team by himself.

It didn't take very long for NFL defenses to figure out that if you keep him behind his big guys in the backfield, he's not very useful.

Well I only use that word with a few QB's....McNabb, Ben R. and Vick. And I only use that word when people like you bring up every stat know to man kind in order to prove whether or not certain players are any good or not. And you're incorrect on the 7 win analogy.. he helped take a 3 win team and helped turn them into a playoff team.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Vick is the type of QB that you just can't judge him by passing stats. It's pointless. He's a pure 100% playmaker, as is Ben R. and McNabb. He'll never be Brady, Bress, Manning or Palmer. You bring up the W/L record but you fail to mention what happend to Atlanta when he wasn't on the playing field. The year he had a broken leg and missed time Atl. fell apart as they did the year before Matt Ryan came along. So that shows you his value. You also fail to mention that he got his team to the NFC Championship game and a divisional playoff game. To compare Jackson to Vick is pointless cause Vick is or was the better player. There was a reason Vick was the first pick in the draft and the highest paid player.

Point was, he was not coming into his own. The stats don't lie man.
You bring up Ben R. and McNabb. Two Vicks don't equal 1 of either of them. To show passing stats is not pointless...it shows his lack of skills as a QB. I said it before, and I'll say it again, Vick is a faster Kordell Stewart. He's not worthy of being under center unless he's going to run the ball every time.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Point was, he was not coming into his own. The stats don't lie man.
You bring up Ben R. and McNabb. Two Vicks don't equal 1 of either of them. To show passing stats is not pointless...it shows his lack of skills as a QB. I said it before, and I'll say it again, Vick is a faster Kordell Stewart. He's not worthy of being under center unless he's going to run the ball every time.

As a pure pocket passer yes he was not coming into his own and he may never have. But that doesn't mean he wasn't an effective QB. When you total in his rushing yards, the pressure he puts on a defense, the way he makes rushers stay in their lanes, the way he tires out a defense from chasing him around, having to have an extra guy stay home and spy on him.....all these things really don't show up on passing stats but if you went around and asked NFL defensive players and coordinators they'd tell you he was a pretty effective player, pretty tough to defend but not a polished pocket guy. To say he's a faster Kordell may bit accurate but saying he's not worthy of being under center is just silly. We'll agree to disagree..

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

As a pure pocket passer yes he was not coming into his own and he may never have. But that doesn't mean he wasn't an effective QB. When you total in his rushing yards, the pressure he puts on a defense, the way he makes rushers stay in their lanes, the way he tires out a defense from chasing him around, having to have an extra guy stay home and spy on him.....all these things really don't show up on passing stats but if you went around and asked NFL defensive players and coordinators they'd tell you he was a pretty effective player, pretty tough to defend but not a polished pocket guy. To say he's a faster Kordell may bit accurate but saying he's not worthy of being under center is just silly. We'll agree to disagree..

Point well taken. I certainly understand your stance, but we have different fundamental beliefs on what a good / effective qb is. He is / was certainly someone that caused problems for defenses though. So you are correct, we will agree to disagree.