Michael Vick in Talks to Become PETA Spokesman

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

You do realize, that your link, is from 2002, and the study ended in 1994. Not debating the point of recidivism rates(though, i think it's there's more to it than your comment implies), just that the stats you are using are about 15yrs old or older.

I know the study is old, but I wanted to have something from the Fed to emphasize my point and that was the quickest thing I could find. If there are more recent numbers that show a significant change, I'd be surprised.

Nothing more to my point than social programs and "touchy feely" stuff doesn't usually work to change a person's mind-set (especially a convicted criminial) once they're adults. I'm a Crim Justice major and the only proven thing that deters crime is punishment that is swift, certain and severe. The deterence of crime due to the fear of punishment, isn't changing a person's mind-set though. The whole thing is a re-emphasis of my point that I don't believe for a second Vick is truly remorseful for what he did or that he's changed. I'm sure he's sorry...a sorry excuse for a person and he's sorry he got caught.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know the study is old, but I wanted to have something from the Fed to emphasize my point and that was the quickest thing I could find. If there are more recent numbers that show a significant change, I'd be surprised.

Nothing more to my point than social programs and "touchy feely" stuff doesn't usually work to change a person's mind-set (especially a convicted criminial) once they're adults. I'm a Crim Justice major and the only proven thing that deters crime is punishment that is swift, certain and severe. The deterence of crime due to the fear of punishment, isn't changing a person's mind-set though. The whole thing is a re-emphasis of my point that I don't believe for a second Vick is truly remorseful for what he did or that he's changed. I'm sure he's sorry...a sorry excuse for a person and he's sorry he got caught.

Well, I guess I don't think even the study you provided really shows your point very well. Using your numbers(inverting to show the negative of the study):

32.5(or about 1/3) of the individuals were successfully rehabilitated (never re-entered the "system")

53.1(or over half) were NOT reconvicted in State or Federal Court for a new crime

48.2( or just under half) were NOT returned to prison with or without a new prison sentence (and 26.4% of the "half" that were were sent back were done so on a technical violation which can range from minor to major, but not violations of the criminal law per se).

only 1 in 4 (25.4%) were sent back based on a new crime committed, and convicted of the same.


If you had not said you were studying Criminal Justice, I probably wouldn't care how you felt. But if you are taking the time and effort to enter our nations jurisprudence, then maybe you should look at what the numbers really say. Further, if you take some of the offenses, and account for things like home and stability after incarceration, income levels again after incarceration, you would find the truth is that recidivism comes not just from a simplistic "deterence of crime due to the fear" but from a whole spectrum of "touchy feely" and "fear of punishment".

32.5% were re-habilitated without ever re-entering the system. Yes that is not 100%, but it is 1 in 3 people, real people who move forward in our society and overcome social and economic stigma of being a felon. So please, whatever you are going to do with your Criminal Justice degree, don't base your assumptions of the fact that people can't respond. That would be a false premise.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well, I guess I don't think even the study you provided really shows your point very well. Using your numbers(inverting to show the negative of the study):

32.5(or about 1/3) of the individuals were successfully rehabilitated (never re-entered the "system")

53.1(or over half) were NOT reconvicted in State or Federal Court for a new crime

48.2( or just under half) were NOT returned to prison with or without a new prison sentence (and 26.4% of the "half" that were were sent back were done so on a technical violation which can range from minor to major, but not violations of the criminal law per se).

only 1 in 4 (25.4%) were sent back based on a new crime committed, and convicted of the same.


If you had not said you were studying Criminal Justice, I probably wouldn't care how you felt. But if you are taking the time and effort to enter our nations jurisprudence, then maybe you should look at what the numbers really say. Further, if you take some of the offenses, and account for things like home and stability after incarceration, income levels again after incarceration, you would find the truth is that recidivism comes not just from a simplistic "deterence of crime due to the fear" but from a whole spectrum of "touchy feely" and "fear of punishment".

32.5% were re-habilitated without ever re-entering the system. Yes that is not 100%, but it is 1 in 3 people, real people who move forward in our society and overcome social and economic stigma of being a felon. So please, whatever you are going to do with your Criminal Justice degree, don't base your assumptions of the fact that people can't respond. That would be a false premise.

Fear not, I completed my degree over 15 years ago and stayed in the field my minor is in, Computer Science. We'll have to agree to disagree, I tend to focus on the 2 out of 3 that are repeat offenders and believe that for the most part criminals tend to not change their outlook.