the new health care?

[dmek25]

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by dmek25

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

The Democrats have been in control of Congress since 2006. No one liked it when the Republicans spent a lot of money. Why would we like it when the Dems spend double that amount?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmek25

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

I think you mean tied to the social conservatives so fastly. The christian right's co-opting of the Republican party started in the 80's with Mr. Falwell and the Moral Majority. It concerned me then and has ultimately cost the Republican party its soul as the social conservatives became more interested in government interventionism as time wore on.

Whereas originally this group was very defensive saying, essentially, "We have a right to believe as we do and to express that belief" (which I agree with), they changed to a very aggressive stance saying "We have the right to believe as we do and, where we are the majority, to make laws reflecting and enforcing our religious beliefs." In doing so, the went from a stance that required govt. to simply stay out of the way to one that called for interventionist policies. Once you buy into the "Govt. can legislate belief", it is only a short trip down the road to Govt activism.

The social conservatives and the democratic socialists have the same formula, they just believe in different ingredients.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I think you mean tied to the social conservatives so fastly. The christian right's co-opting of the Republican party started in the 80's with Mr. Falwell and the Moral Majority. It concerned me then and has ultimately cost the Republican party its soul as the social conservatives became more interested in government interventionism as time wore on.

Whereas originally this group was very defensive saying, essentially, "We have a right to believe as we do and to express that belief" (which I agree with), they changed to a very aggressive stance saying "We have the right to believe as we do and, where we are the majority, to make laws reflecting and enforcing our religious beliefs." In doing so, the went from a stance that required govt. to simply stay out of the way to one that called for interventionist policies. Once you buy into the "Govt. can legislate belief", it is only a short trip down the road to Govt activism.

The social conservatives and the democratic socialists have the same formula, they just believe in different ingredients.

Well then what is a hate crime? If I call someone a name as I'm betting on them its a different set of rules and a longer sentence. Besides abortion what othe religious type laws have the Rep. pushed for.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well then what is a hate crime? If I call someone a name as I'm betting on them its a different set of rules and a longer sentence. Besides abortion what othe religious type laws have the Rep. pushed for.

1. I think the "hate crime" as an additional penalty falls in the "democratic socialists = social conservatives but with different ingredients" rule. For the record, I oppose additional sentencing for "hate crimes" as they strike me as thought crimes a la' Orwell's 1984.

2. Off the top of my head, I would suggest the attempt to modify the constitution to include and define one of the seven traditional christian sacraments could be an example.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

1. I think the "hate crime" as an additional penalty falls in the "democratic socialists = social conservatives but with different ingredients" rule. For the record, I oppose additional sentencing for "hate crimes" as they strike me as thought crimes a la' Orwell's 1984.

2. Off the top of my head, I would suggest the attempt to modify the constitution to include and define one of the seven traditional christian sacraments could be an example.

Never heard of your example but did it get alot of support or was it just a few people trying to pass that bill. My point is you hear of a few things here and there but you never really see these things having strong support. I'm sure if we looked we could find stupid stuff on both sides that introduce crazy bills but without alot if any strong support from others in congress. The last thing I remember is the fight for a judge to post the ten commandments in or around the court building and I think that was a legal issue.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well then what is a hate crime? If I call someone a name as I'm betting on them its a different set of rules and a longer sentence. Besides abortion what othe religious type laws have the Rep. pushed for.

Are you kidding me?

The GOP has run for the last 20 years at least on social conservatism and fiscal conservatism RHETORIC.

When given the chance to govern they were able to:

a) do nothing to advance their social values legislatively because those values are held by a minority
b) completely ignore their fiscal conservative principles.

We don't have a single true fiscal conservative politician in this country of any significance because they get run out of the party pretty effing fast. Look at a guy like Demint in SC. He is a true free-marketer and gets barely any traction within the party because of it. He voted against the Medicare bill because it was crap while the rest of the dumbsh*t Republicans rallied around our wonderful "Conservative" President as they passed into law one of the biggest spending projects in US history.

But to answer your question:

Abortion
Gay Marriage
Gays in the Military
10 Commandments in public buildings
Prayer in school
The whole "family values" campaign


Just to name a few

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

Add myself, and I believe FRPLG and GMScud to that group

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Add myself, and I believe FRPLG and GMScud to that group

Yessir. I enjoy this board way too much to get into political back and forth (although I occasionally lurk on the political threads and enjoy some of the discussion). However I'm not shy about revealing my political alignment.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

Bingo...I am not exactly pro-choice but I honestly give mostly a hoot about social issues. They seem to work themselves out on their own and I don't really want anyone legislating social mores anyways. Plus the social direction of this country means nothing if we spend it into oblivion and end up with no country someday.

"Hallelujah! Even though our nation has fallen to pieces and civil wars have ensued...we still don't let woman have abortions and the damn gays can't get married. We've won!!!!!"

Yeah you've won you dopes. You've won a Darwin award. Screw social conservatives in my opinion.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Bingo...I am not exactly pro-choice but I honestly give mostly a hoot about social issues. They seem to work themselves out on their own and I don't really want anyone legislating social mores anyways. Plus the social direction of this country means nothing if we spend it into oblivion and end up with no country someday.

"Hallelujah! Even though our nation has fallen to pieces and civil wars have ensued...we still don't let woman have abortions and the damn gays can't get married. We've won!!!!!"

Yeah you've won you dopes. You've won a Darwin award. Screw social conservatives in my opinion.

LOL. Great post.

[Trample the Elderly]

I'm happy to inform all of you that there is another option for disenfranchised Republicans and Moderates, it's called the Democratic party.

[Monksdown]

No thanks. If i wanted to be socialist, i'd hop to France.