Indefinite detentions under Obama???

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Just like people complain and act like it's a terrible act when American's get tortured, but are fine with it when we do it to our enemies. You're either for something or against it -- you can't have a one way argument.

You're looking at this as if it's a country vs. country conflict. In which case you would be 100% correct. This is not the same situation. We're not dealing with soldiers from another country. We're dealing with animals who murder innocents purposely, behead innocents on video, and kill civilians to make it look like we did it. The sole purpose of these morons is to impose their ideology on the world through terror. If waterboarding 3 of the high-level operatives to save innocent lives (American or otherwise) needs to be done, then let's save lives. Last I checked American civilians weren't running around in foreign countries trying to kill Iraqis, or Afghans, or any other country's civilian population.

Keep in mind the "torture" (I'm assuming waterboarding) you're referring to was no worse than what our own special operations forces undergo during training. Although we try to hold ourselves to a higher standard, we know that other countries or terrorist organizations won't hesitate to torture our folks if they're captured.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You're looking at this as if it's a country vs. country conflict. In which case you would be 100% correct. This is not the same situation. We're not dealing with soldiers from another country. We're dealing with animals who murder innocents purposely, behead innocents on video, and kill civilians to make it look like we did it. The sole purpose of these morons is to impose their ideology on the world through terror. If waterboarding 3 of the high-level operatives to save innocent lives (American or otherwise) needs to be done, then let's save lives. Last I checked American civilians weren't running around in foreign countries trying to kill Iraqis, or Afghans, or any other country's civilian population.

Keep in mind the "torture" (I'm assuming waterboarding) you're referring to was no worse than what our own special operations forces undergo during training. Although we try to hold ourselves to a higher standard, we know that other countries or terrorist organizations won't hesitate to torture our folks if they're captured.

"animals" rarely do the kind of deeds you describe. That level of cruelty is solely the domain of humans. I'm not a peta clown, just saying... We do these things because we misapply the limited reasoning skills we have and carry out actions in the name of country, religion and ideology that we would never do otherwise.

Also, because i'm in the mood to play devil's advocate, what makes one form of killing superior to another? "Terrorists" strap on explosives and blow themselves up in a market killing hundreds of civilians. The "Good Guys" use cluster bombs and other conventional weapons that eliminate people on a much larger scale, killing countless civilians regardless of our best intentions. I really don't get the whole "these people are monsters" arguments unless we as Americans just need to feel morally superior to those we destroy. In my opinion, that's simply a weakness of intellect.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

"animals" rarely do the kind of deeds you describe. That level of cruelty is solely the domain of humans. I'm not a peta clown, just saying... We do these things because we misapply the limited reasoning skills we have and carry out actions in the name of country, religion and ideology that we would never do otherwise.

Also, because i'm in the mood to play devil's advocate, what makes one form of killing superior to another? "Terrorists" strap on explosives and blow themselves up in a market killing hundreds of civilians. The "Good Guys" use cluster bombs and other conventional weapons that eliminate people on a much larger scale, killing countless civilians regardless of our best intentions. I really don't get the whole "these people are monsters" arguments unless we as Americans just need to feel morally superior to those we destroy. In my opinion, that's simply a weakness of intellect.

Your kidding right? There is a hudge difference. Yes in war civilians are going to died but they are not the target when we strike at a target. The bad guys your talking about target civilians.

[Daseal]

Firstdown, don't act ignorant. Every country targets civilians first. It has to do with destroying infrastructure. Often children are involved. Israel has been said to purposely bomb schools, during school hours. Same with hospitals.

Unfortunately, when you invade, civilians will feel the brunt of the attack. We've been very lucky as Americans to not see wars on our own soil (besides the ones we conduct on ourselves, and Pearl Harbor.) I couldn't imagine the constant state of fear many countries, especially in the instable middle east go through every day. 9/11 was terrible, but it pales in comparison to what most countries see regularly.

Yes, we're not striking the target 'to kill civilians', but we are targeting important structures that we know will lead to civilian death. It's an unfortunate side effect of war.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Your kidding right? There is a hudge difference. Yes in war civilians are going to died but they are not the target when we strike at a target. The bad guys your talking about target civilians.

I'm absolutely not kidding. Civilians are just as dead in either scenario, whether they had been specifically targeted or not.